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Message 15127 - Posted: 10 Feb 2010 | 19:41:00 UTC

According to statsnstones.com

SETI@HOME has 1,064,273 Members & 2,568,556 Computers at it's disposal & have generated 66,699,627,687 Credits.

PS3GRID/GPUGRID has 7,583 Members & 12,955 Computers at it's disposal & have generated 5,761,424,163 Credits.

These Stats were updated 2/10/2010

If PS3GRID/GPUDRID just doubles it's Members, it won't be too long before it overtakes SETI@HOME which was the first to use BOINC!
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Message 15137 - Posted: 11 Feb 2010 | 4:02:44 UTC - in response to Message 15127.

Comparing a project that runs entirely on GPUs to a project that primarily runs on CPUs is going to lead to lopsided numbers.

Also, credits are utterly meaningless cross-project benchmarks since they can be created out of thin air and given out at will. For the same amount of crunching, GPUGRID hands out far more credit than SETI does. So the comparison is utterly arbitrary, and, ultimately, worthless.

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Message 15145 - Posted: 11 Feb 2010 | 11:29:04 UTC - in response to Message 15137.
Last modified: 11 Feb 2010 | 11:30:32 UTC

I disagree. Why? Because as long as I'm a point whore, it doesn't really matter now does it? I'm not the scientist who's trying to get some research done, I'm the guy who just lends his PC to science, however my PC is being used is irrelevant to me, all I see is just a bunch of credits. It's not my fault if my PC is being used or abused, & paid for the hardware, I pay for the electricity, & I paid for the Internet connection.
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Message 15153 - Posted: 11 Feb 2010 | 19:42:11 UTC - in response to Message 15145.

SETI has been running for a Very long time and can use CPUs as well as GPUs. This is a GPU based project that uses top end GPUs.
Chalk and Cheese.

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Message 15155 - Posted: 11 Feb 2010 | 20:30:37 UTC - in response to Message 15153.
Last modified: 11 Feb 2010 | 20:44:07 UTC

I'm not only doing this because I'm a point whore ;-) If SETI@HOME had something to do with what's going on here on Earth, maybe I'd have chosen them too! But even if they do find ET, that won't be relevant to anything in my lifetime, nor the lifetime of my children, or children's children, etc, etc...

Not to diss all the people running SETI, but there's sick people, unemployment, money to be made & things to be done here on Earth. Unless ET is gonna beam us all that via SETI, I just don't see why I should be looking for him ;-)
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Message 15160 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 0:30:39 UTC - in response to Message 15137.

Just one clarification: GPUGRID gives approximately the same amount of credit per floating point operation as SETI (faq). High end GPUs provide FAR more ops/second than CPUs.

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Message 15172 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 12:17:52 UTC - in response to Message 15160.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2010 | 12:27:44 UTC

Just one clarification: GPUGRID gives approximately the same amount of credit per floating point operation as SETI (faq). High end GPUs provide FAR more ops/second than CPUs.

~and~

SETI has been running for a Very long time and can use CPUs as well as GPUs. This is a GPU based project that uses top end GPUs.
Chalk and Cheese.


If you both were responding to my statement, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. (Which means I didn't express myself clearly enough. Mia culpa.)

I was comparing SETI's GPU multibeam (MB) application vs GPUGRID. I was not comparing a GPU to a CPU. Same GTX280 crunching everything.

Using just the GPU (no CPU tasks from SETI), over the same period of time, GPUGRID and and Milkyway produce roughly the same amount of credits, whereas SETI generates only about 1/2 to 1/3 the credits. Of course, in my view, that's 100% arbitrary and meaningless, but as long as we're discussing it, that's what I'm seeing on this GPU. This field being what it is, however, the data I'm seeing may be different than someone else with different hardware and/or a different computing environment. But on this computer, for the same amount of time spent crunching on the same piece of hardware, SETI gives a lot less credits than GPUGRID or Milkyway.

Considering the large differences in credits between projects, I'm more surprised that Milkyway and GPUGRID are so close to each other than I am that SETI is so different.

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Message 15174 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 12:41:38 UTC - in response to Message 15172.


I was comparing SETI's GPU multibeam (MB) application vs GPUGRID. I was not comparing a GPU to a CPU. Same GTX280 crunching everything.


AFAIK, SETI gives a (precalculated) amount of credit per WU. So it is unimportant if it was crunched by a CPU or a GPU. And it is possible to have a "CPU-result" validate against a "GPU-result".

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Message 15175 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 13:03:02 UTC - in response to Message 15174.


I was comparing SETI's GPU multibeam (MB) application vs GPUGRID. I was not comparing a GPU to a CPU. Same GTX280 crunching everything.


AFAIK, SETI gives a (precalculated) amount of credit per WU. So it is unimportant if it was crunched by a CPU or a GPU. And it is possible to have a "CPU-result" validate against a "GPU-result".

Michael


True, but if you're a self-described credit-whore like the OP then it really doesn't matter WHY there's a disparity; it only matters that the disparity exists. You get less bang for your buck crunching SETI on your GPU than you do on other projects.

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Message 15177 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 14:30:31 UTC - in response to Message 15175.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2010 | 14:31:52 UTC

Hey, that was nasty & low! I've got a sense of humour & a lot of self confidence. It's ok if I call myself a credit whore, but be careful when you call others that.

There are project that try to compete for people lending their PC's to their project! That SETI does what it does & GPUGRID does what it does, & other sites even might try other ways to promote their sites or more members, it's up to them, & as long as it's still World Wild Web, we can't say for sure what goes, & what doesn't go.

What about if some were to be awarded prizes or even cash? There are Projects that do that too. But did you ever consider that stress, & therefore wear & tear to the GPU should be considered when giving credits. Also the fact that power consumption costs money & the bigger the GPU, the greater the power bill.
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Message 15179 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 15:05:56 UTC - in response to Message 15177.

Hey, that was nasty & low!I've got a sense of humour & a lot of self confidence. It's ok if I call myself a credit whore, but be careful when you call others that.


Eep! No offense intended (which is why I was using your words.) Although I personally think credit is a meaningless reason to participate -- I'm also a gamer (dating all the way back to arcade games like Pong, Asteroids, and Space Invaders) and competition IS fun. More importantly, if credit brings people to your project, then it's doing its job! :)

What about if some were to be awarded prizes or even cash? There are Projects that do that too.


Are there really? Wow.

But did you ever consider that stress, & therefore wear & tear to the GPU should be considered when giving credits. Also the fact that power consumption costs money & the bigger the GPU, the greater the power bill.


Absolutely. In fact, after a discussion here a year ago about wear & tear, I stopped running BOINC after considering the possible effects on component longevity. I changed my mind eventually, in part due to the lifetime warrantee from EVGA, but it is a consideration.

And I also tend to run BOINC more in the winter than the summer. It's easier to justify the extra power consumption, heat production, and carbon footprint when it's contributing to heating the house than in the summer when it's working against the air conditioning.

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Message 15184 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 17:26:04 UTC - in response to Message 15179.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2010 | 17:42:52 UTC

Ibercivis has prizes that you can win (Although I think you have to be Spanish to qualify winning a prize). I've seen some Projects that I didn't dare sign up for, they sounded fishy & didn't use BOINC, by their own VM-Ware PC that (God Forbid!) might turn your PC into a Bot, because they insist that you be online 24/7.

I use my PC's 4 heating too! Electricity is part of the rent here, but central heating has it's own (add on or save) to the rent.

These GPU's are supposed to stay alive for at least 2 years (at least in Denmark they HAVE to). How many gamers keep their card for that long?

It would be nice if someone could make a Water Cooling System, where the external part of the System actually was formed & fashioned to be a radiator. That way, it might even be possible to place it in another room(for Summer).

Maybe someone could make an air conditioner case for people who couldn't be bothered (like myself) to play water sports. I've seen OCZ-Cryo-Z but you have to use (silicone gel/fat?) The split air conditioners I've seen could transfer all that humidity outside, but they're blowing cool air out & sucking hot air in, not phase changing directly on top of the CPU.
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Message 15186 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 18:10:36 UTC - in response to Message 15184.

It would be nice if someone could make a Water Cooling System, where the external part of the System actually was formed & fashioned to be a radiator. That way, it might even be possible to place it in another room(for Summer).


So which is more expensive and/or environmentally unfriendly?

Running a conventional water cooled OC'd system, considering all the electricity used (especially in summer with the air conditioning on), or...

Run water from your house's plumbing continuously through your water cooling system. Ditch the pump. Ditch the reservoir. Relatively cold water flows from the tap through the blocks on the CPU and GPU and then down the drain. Zero electricity is used cooling the system, and the waste heat goes down the drain, literally. You can use a valve to control the water flow rate, and hence the cooling and component temperatures.

Even more extreme would be to use a liquid nitrogen tank instead of water. Liquid nitrogen is crazy cheap. But you'd have to get the tank refilled every now and then, and there are dangers involved (not just the obvious danger from the cold, but if you fill your house up with nitrogen, you could suffocate.)

A long time ago (a REALLY long time ago) I used to do laser shows, the kind that rock bands use. The lasers used for those shows are big suckers and use a whole lot of power and produce a whole lot of heat. They're water cooled, as in you hook a garden hose up to them to provide the cooling water. Then again, we didn't run those things 24/7 and we weren't the ones paying the water bill. Or the equally impressive electric bill. :)

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Message 15190 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 19:43:50 UTC - in response to Message 15186.

But don't take a good ide the wrong way. Yes I do use the means that I have at my disposal. If I had more money to spend, I could do a better job to save the Planet. But I don't so I make do with what I have.

I'm not even talking about running everything on solar (which costs money to make & uses materials to make), or buying my own windmill. Even if I had the cash, I would have to move to somewhere else just to be able to constuct either things, plus I'd need a really big UPS or have something that can make Hydrogen from water when I have enough power & something to burn Hydrogen, when I don't have enough power.

But I'm dirt poor, so the more realistic scenario would be for me to buy a share in a Windmill farm, so that at least I could make up for the power I use, but as I said, I can't even afford to do that.

It's expensive to be poor, not only for me, but for others too. I'm not the only one, so if you think about how it might benefit society to have such a great divide between rich & poor. A more effective Society can only be possible in a more equal Society.
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Message 15194 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 20:31:48 UTC - in response to Message 15190.

I'm not sure I follow you -- I think what we have here (to quote an old movie) "is a failure to communicate."

I was merely (and somewhat fancifully) wondering about running a cooling system off of tap water. That is wasteful of water (which is a really bad thing in some parts of the world), so I was speculating on the cost (both in terms of money and environmental impact) of that versus the more normal water cooling solution. In no way was it meant to be critical of you or anyone, and I apologize if it came off that way.

When I asked "which is more expensive...", that was actually a question, not criticism. :(

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Message 15196 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 20:48:31 UTC - in response to Message 15194.

I guess it certainly was a failure to communicate or at least to understand, because I wasn't on the attack, nor did I mean to attack you. I was simply being humorous. Of course I did not think about that water comes cheap in some countries, but water costs money here, plus it's drinkable too!

But unless whatever water you plan to use, is done w/o only gravity being the source behind the water flowing though the system, energy will be required to move that water. So unless rain water, water from the highlands flowing downwards is used. You might as well use electricity.

BTW, that thing you said about Nitro sounds fascinating, but I don't have a clue how that works out in relating to cost, waste, & enviromental impact. I'd have to modify my PC in a way that I don't yet know how to as well. But it's sounds fascinating!
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Message 15199 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 22:02:01 UTC - in response to Message 15196.

I know the liquid nitrogen thing has been done at least in the lab. Somebody OC'd the heck out of a brand new processor a few years back using liquid nitrogen. It might have been either Intel or AMD that did it. Shouldn't be too hard to Google...

Actually, there's a lot of hits. Apparently there's even competitions for it. Here's someone running a Celeron (!!!) at .... you ready? .... 8+ GHz.





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Message 15202 - Posted: 13 Feb 2010 | 0:13:39 UTC - in response to Message 15199.

Damn! The things I could do, if I had a 23x multiplier & something to cool that baby down! Even if it fried, I could get 30+ for the price of 1 extreme edition!

This is totally against my dislike of the throw away culture :-( I would never get an extreme edition (too rich for me), but I'd never go with the throw away chip either.

If I get something, I want it to last, until it's pointless not to trash it. I even bought cheap second hand smart phones & PDA phones, just to change the discontinued firmware, with something that someone cooked up in their kitchen.
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