Advanced search

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : Cuda32 app?

Author Message
MarkJ
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 08
Posts: 738
Credit: 200,909,904
RAC: 0
Level
Leu
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19022 - Posted: 24 Oct 2010 | 10:37:19 UTC
Last modified: 24 Oct 2010 | 10:37:43 UTC

A question for the devs: Is there a cuda 3.2 app in the works?

The 260.89 drivers are now whql'ed. I'm not sure if the cuda 3.2 DLL's are released or still under NDA. Assuming they are released apart from fixing some bugs with cuda 3.1 they have supposedly optimised the DLL's for use on the Fermi chips.
____________
BOINC blog

Richard Haselgrove
Send message
Joined: 11 Jul 09
Posts: 1434
Credit: 3,542,949,351
RAC: 414,661
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19023 - Posted: 24 Oct 2010 | 10:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 19022.

A question for the devs: Is there a cuda 3.2 app in the works?

The 260.89 drivers are now whql'ed. I'm not sure if the cuda 3.2 DLL's are released or still under NDA. Assuming they are released apart from fixing some bugs with cuda 3.1 they have supposedly optimised the DLL's for use on the Fermi chips.

The CUDA 3.2 toolkit is still at 'release candidate' stage, according to http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda_archive.html.

GPUGRID Role account
Send message
Joined: 15 Feb 07
Posts: 134
Credit: 1,349,535,983
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19031 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 9:52:39 UTC - in response to Message 19022.

Hi,

I've started testing with 3.2RC, but don't expect anything until after the full release is made. You shouldn't have any trouble moving to post 3.1-release 260-series drivers, however.

MJH

MarkJ
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 08
Posts: 738
Credit: 200,909,904
RAC: 0
Level
Leu
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19033 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 11:34:44 UTC

I've updated drivers to 260.89 at present, just waiting on the DLL's and apps to become available to use it. Older cuda apps seem to be fine on it. Presumably there will be some speed improvement for Fermi-based cards when using cuda 3.2.
____________
BOINC blog

Richard Haselgrove
Send message
Joined: 11 Jul 09
Posts: 1434
Credit: 3,542,949,351
RAC: 414,661
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19035 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 11:39:05 UTC

Similarly, I've been running 260.89 drivers for a while, in three combinations: WinXP/Fermi, WinXP/9800GT, Win7/9800GTX+. No problems, and if anything GPUGrid has been running more reliably on the 9800GT-series since the upgrade - though that may just the the variability of the tasks issued (I still can't get the HIVPR_n1 series to run on the older cards).

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19036 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 12:00:24 UTC - in response to Message 19035.

I have been using it since it was in Beta, without too much trouble. By itself it brought no speed increase over the previous final release on a GTX470 XP x86. The dll files in 3.2 might help, but only for some tasks; for those already at 93% to 98% GPU utilization there is little improvement to be had.
While the GTX460 could do with a speed bump for Windows, hopefully MJH is also trying to get a working app together for Linux users of the GTX460 and GTS450. These have similar architectures to the still unreleased GTX475 and presently don't work under Linux.

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19038 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 15:00:42 UTC - in response to Message 19035.

Similarly, I've been running 260.89 drivers for a while,

Has anyone noticed a slowdown (lower GPU usage) with v260.89? Is there a way to force the driver to use max power instead of adaptive mode? The max power option seems to have disappeared from the preferences.

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19041 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 17:40:57 UTC - in response to Message 19038.
Last modified: 25 Oct 2010 | 17:52:30 UTC

Yes, but I think it is the lightweight IBUCH tasks rather than the driver.
I was running the latest driver when I noticed the almost halving of the GPU Utilization, so I tried the previous full driver and it did not improve. When I get the odd non-IBUCH task the utilization is much higher.

Not sure about the adaptive setting making any difference for Fermis but sometimes did for CC1.3 cards.

I did notice a small performance drop from the 260.89 driver to the previous beta version, but it was around 1% less so prone to inaccuracy.

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19044 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 19:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 19041.

Yes, but I think it is the lightweight IBUCH tasks rather than the driver.
I was running the latest driver when I noticed the almost halving of the GPU Utilization, so I tried the previous full driver and it did not improve. When I get the odd non-IBUCH task the utilization is much higher.

I did not say less GPU utilization, I said SLOWER. After more fiddling it turns out that with 260.89 the GPU runs at the correct speed after rebooting for about 1/2 hour, then drops to about 55% shader and core speed. The only way I can get it to go back to full speed is to reboot WinXP-64. Anyone have a solution or just go back to the 258.xx drivers? I can't find a way to turn off the adaptive power setting...


ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19047 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 7:41:41 UTC

Beyond: set the windows power settings to maximum performance?

SK wrote:
The dll files in 3.2 might help, but only for some tasks; for those already at 93% to 98% GPU utilization there is little improvement to be had.


They could still optimize routines and avoid some unneccessary calculations here and there. Not saying this is possible with the current code, just that generally even at 100% load there may still be room for avoiding calculations ;)

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19049 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 12:35:33 UTC - in response to Message 19047.

Thought you would pick up on that ;)

In the latest full release windows version of NVidia Control Panel there is no way to set the Power management mode to “prefer maximum performance”. This is installed with the latest driver Full Release NVidia driver (260.89). I can’t presently check to see what comes with the latest Linux driver (system rebuild in progress). Power management preferences are normally found within Manage 3d settings, but were absent with the latest control panel version when I checked (Win x86, GTX470).

It was an unfortunate coincidence that these frequency reductions occurred during the release of many lightweight tasks. I came across cards reducing their frequencies before (as did many) and found that by using EVGA Precision and leaving it open on the desktop my cards did not slow down, but that workaround may not work on this occasion.
Going back to the previous driver might be the best option, as 260.89 brought no performance improvements, though you could try to just uninstall the NVidia Control Panel from Add/Remove Programs, and then install the Control Panel that came with the 258 driver.
As it appears the 260.89 drivers are BAD for GTX260’s and/or GT240’s under Windows operating systems, I would suggest people stay away from 260.89 if they have a CC1.3 card or below.
There is a 260.99 beta out now, that might bring a fix, but there are few reasons to upgrade NVidia 200 series cards for here.

For anyone with this problem and wanting to go back to 258, be careful the way you uninstall the present driver and reinstall 258, or you will end up keeping the latest NVidia Control Panel.
The usual safe method of going back is running a full uninstall, rebooting into safe mode and installing the older driver, though some of the latest drivers offer up more options to uninstall/install.

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19051 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 13:57:39 UTC - in response to Message 19047.

Beyond: set the windows power settings to maximum performance?

Yep, always. Last night installed the new v260.99 on 2 machines with GT 240 cards. One seems to be staying at high power while the other one is dropping to low power even faster. Once they drop to low power it seems that NOTHING will bring them back short of rebooting.

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19054 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 16:06:11 UTC - in response to Message 19051.

For driver 260.99 the Power Management Preferences are now under the Program Settings Tab, however I was not able to set Power management preferences to Maximum; there is only the one setting, Adaptive. So avoid this Beta as well (NVidia Control Panel version 3.4.772.04).

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19055 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 16:18:06 UTC - in response to Message 19049.

Thought you would pick up on that ;)

In the latest full release windows version of NVidia Control Panel there is no way to set the Power management mode to “prefer maximum performance”. This is installed with the latest driver Full Release NVidia driver (260.89). I can’t presently check to see what comes with the latest Linux driver (system rebuild in progress). Power management preferences are normally found within Manage 3d settings, but were absent with the latest control panel version when I checked (Win x86, GTX470).

It was an unfortunate coincidence that these frequency reductions occurred during the release of many lightweight tasks. I came across cards reducing their frequencies before (as did many) and found that by using EVGA Precision and leaving it open on the desktop my cards did not slow down, but that workaround may not work on this occasion.
Going back to the previous driver might be the best option, as 260.89 brought no performance improvements, though you could try to just uninstall the NVidia Control Panel from Add/Remove Programs, and then install the Control Panel that came with the 258 driver.
As it appears the 260.89 drivers are BAD for GTX260’s and/or GT240’s under Windows operating systems, I would suggest people stay away from 260.89 if they have a CC1.3 card or below.
There is a 260.99 beta out now, that might bring a fix, but there are few reasons to upgrade NVidia 200 series cards for here.

Good suggestion. I tried installing the NVidia Control Panel and NView from v258.96 (over v260.99). Still no power settings and still went to low power about 30 minutes after rebooting. Tried leaving MSI Afterburner and a host of other programs open to see if they would stop the down-clocking but no go.

Actually v260.99 is also listed as WHQL and seems to have the same problem. I reverted to v258.96 and the problem is gone. Kind of looks like the NVidia driver team is trying to match the success of their chip designers... ;)

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19056 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 17:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 19055.

At least the fans didn’t stop this time :)
Finding good cards for this project is hard enough without trying to work out which app works best with which broken driver. GPU crunching is not easy.
While this could just be bad design I’m half expecting NVidia to release their GTX475 after their driver success; It would mirror their first Fermi release – crippled cards with knobbled drivers. To see two broken WHQL released only a week apart tells me something is wrong there.
Although the last Linux driver is 260.1912 released October 13th and the CUDA Toolkit is still at the 3.2 Release Candidate stage, I would not put it past them to release another unsupported card. GTX460 and GTS450 don’t work on Linux and the GTX460 is about 30% too slow on Windows, 3 months after release.

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19058 - Posted: 26 Oct 2010 | 21:00:01 UTC - in response to Message 19056.

To see two broken WHQL released only a week apart tells me something is wrong there.


Could be by design. Thinking "so many people are wasting electricity by choosing high performance for no reason, so let's just make adaptive the standard" and setting the load detection wrong, so that compute doesn't wake the GPU up properly.
This would be the real bug - for a company pushing GP-GPU so hard one would expect a little more understanding for the needs of the people actually buying their GPUs for crunching. And give us the Tesla drivers for desktop GPUs please, so we can manage our headless crunchers via remote desktop!

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19078 - Posted: 28 Oct 2010 | 18:01:39 UTC

Just an update. Eventually all 3 machines on which I installed v260.89 & later v260.99 reverted to GPU low power mode when running GPUGRID with no way to return to normal speed except rebooting. After rebooting low power mode would return after ~ 30 minutes. All machines were XP-64 and all returned to preferred normal (remaining in max power mode) behavior by reverting to NVidia driver v258.96.

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19079 - Posted: 28 Oct 2010 | 20:14:37 UTC - in response to Message 19078.

low power mode when running GPUGRID with no way to return to normal speed except rebooting.


What if you launch a game? Does it speed up and stay there for another 30 mins? Sorry if this has been answered before, I haven't paid much attention lately.

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19085 - Posted: 28 Oct 2010 | 23:27:53 UTC - in response to Message 19079.

low power mode when running GPUGRID with no way to return to normal speed except rebooting.


What if you launch a game? Does it speed up and stay there for another 30 mins? Sorry if this has been answered before, I haven't paid much attention lately.

MrS

I don't game so can't tell you. I did try loading MANY misc apps and GPU monitoring programs to see if he GPU could be coaxed back to a higher speed, with no success at all. Only a reboot seemed to do it and then only for a short time. A REALLY bad bug IMO.

Richard Haselgrove
Send message
Joined: 11 Jul 09
Posts: 1434
Credit: 3,542,949,351
RAC: 414,661
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19086 - Posted: 28 Oct 2010 | 23:41:37 UTC - in response to Message 19085.

A REALLY bad bug IMO.

What has the feedback on the NVidia forums been like?

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19090 - Posted: 29 Oct 2010 | 7:37:31 UTC

Anyone who's still got them installed try lauching a 3DMark or Furmark. That should surely trigger 3D mode. But don't use 3D Mark 2001.. that's been cpu limited since many years :p

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2335
Credit: 16,178,080,749
RAC: 0
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19534 - Posted: 17 Nov 2010 | 21:06:57 UTC

Cuda 3.2 is officially out by NVidia.

zoom314
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 13 Jun 09
Posts: 26
Credit: 2,309,584
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 19598 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010 | 5:59:27 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2010 | 6:01:49 UTC

I just wish I could do more than one gpugrid wu, I kept on downloading and downloading wu's for gpugrid and they'd all error(Computation error 3) out on this 6.13 cuda31 app on My GTX295 v2(6 in a row one after the other), Yet I'm not having problems with wu's on My GTX295 that are from Milkyway@Home or from Seti@Home in the recent past(S@H is down for a few weeks while 2 New HP Servers are configured and tested, The forums should be up, Just not until morning at the moment) as their both using cuda23, Which works here on XP x64, My video driver is 257.15 and Boinc is 6.10.56 which I like better than 6.10.58.
____________

Profile GDF
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 07
Posts: 1947
Credit: 629,356
RAC: 0
Level
Gly
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 19603 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010 | 8:53:34 UTC - in response to Message 19598.

This seems some configuration problem.
Try to reinstall BOINC from scratch on a different directory. Maybe also use the latest one. If it works then you can try to trace the problem down if you want.
gdf

zoom314
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 13 Jun 09
Posts: 26
Credit: 2,309,584
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 19612 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010 | 15:18:59 UTC - in response to Message 19603.
Last modified: 22 Nov 2010 | 15:20:54 UTC

This seems some configuration problem.
Try to reinstall BOINC from scratch on a different directory. Maybe also use the latest one. If it works then you can try to trace the problem down if you want.
gdf

I know why, From what I've read this project does not support My favorite video driver 257.15 which works really well with the Lunatics X32F 3.0 cuda Seti app which does not support any driver earlier than 256.

Reinstalling Boinc in a different folder is a lame idea to Me and would not produce results and I'd have to reinstall My Seti apps and such, So don't ask to Me to do something so stupid again.
____________

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19617 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010 | 16:58:44 UTC

I'm not trying to be a wise-guy but seriously, if you are so upset why not just leave?
____________
Thanks - Steve

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2335
Credit: 16,178,080,749
RAC: 0
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 19649 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010 | 18:12:56 UTC

BTW, do you plan to release a cuda 3.2 application in the near future?

Profile GDF
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 07
Posts: 1947
Credit: 629,356
RAC: 0
Level
Gly
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 19653 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010 | 20:27:35 UTC - in response to Message 19649.

No, not before end of January 2011.

gdf

Post to thread

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : Cuda32 app?

//