Message boards : Number crunching : The hardware enthusiast's corner
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I think that a place to share computer hardware experiences/issues migth be useful at a number crunching platform like this. | |
ID: 52925 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Another tip regarding fans topic, and their frequently associated heatsinks: | |
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Regarding heat dissipation, laptops should be considered as an apart subgroup. | |
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I use XPOWER to blow the dust off my computers: | |
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Electric leaf blower for the win! | |
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Electric leaf blower for the win! +1 Ha ha LOL. | |
ID: 52940 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I use XPOWER to blow the dust off my computers: Nice tool! Blowing those ways, no doubt, is more efficient to blast dust away than vacuum cleaner! But some considerations are to be taken in mind: - It is advisable to immobilize fans blades in some way before blowing. If not, fans may result damaged by overspinning. I broke more than one fan (but less than three) until I realized this... - Dust inside computer before blowing, is outside all arround after... It is not recommended to do it indoors. - Be careful of blowing near flat cables, since them are prone to act as boat sails and get damaged. - Keep theese tools away from children when not in use. - And please, be careful of using this method near asthmatic persons and armed wives for security reasons ;-) | |
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A point to consider when using"Blower" devices is Electro Static Discharge. | |
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A point to consider when using"Blower" devices is Electro Static Discharge. Thank you very much for this remark. I take note of it. Another point to consider in special cases of high humidity environments if using compressed air cans or "zero residue" contact cleaners: Pressurized containers cause a chilling effect when the content expands. If components temperature drop below dewpoint, humidity will arise on them due to condensation. Please, let an extra waiting time after treatment for this humidity completely evaporate. | |
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Another relatively common situation, mainly in veteran rigs (like mine ones): | |
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A true case more to share: | |
ID: 52985 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Fantastic, detail description of troubleshooting and repairing. I like the idea of the pencil rubber to clean the contacts. - Allways switch off computer, disconnect from mains, and ensure no residual voltages are present Touch some metallic part of computer's case to discharge you from static charges before touching any inside component. The only thing different I would do (assuming building power and cabling integrity is in good order): Turn off power at mains and leave power cord plugged in the wall. The earth connector on the power lead will allow for static discharge to be earthed to the building earth when you touch the case. Touching the case to discharge static electricity will not work as well without the plug in the wall. I have been Electrocuted by mains power when working on computer internals. The computer power supply was faulty and passing 240v out the 12v connectors (was investigating why the machine did not start). The building RCD saved me that day. Never make assumptions when working with power and always err on the side of safety. | |
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The only thing different I would do (assuming building power and cabling integrity is in good order): You're right again in your aproach, rod4x4. Touching isolated chassis will equilibrate potentials between operator and computer ground, but not necessarily with surrounding environment. Many PSUs have a power switch. This switch (if working properly) disconnects Live and Neutral electric terminals (the ones bringing power), but Earth (protective) terminal continuity is maintained. Leaving power cord connected and PSU switched off increases sucurity of electronic components against electrostatic discharges. In the other hand, it increases risk for operators... as you have experienced by yourself. Life is a balance. A lower risk (*) home-made approach could consist of using an specially constructed power cable with Earth terminal only connected. I've marked mine with EO! (Earth Only!) It would look as follows: (*) Note: Never believe "zero risk" solutions. They don't exist. Some reasons that could cause this last approach to fail: - Power socket's Earth terminal connection defective - Building's Earth installation itself defective - Confusing tricked power cord with a regular one (Mark it clearly, please!) - Thunderstorm passing by - Any combination of Murphy's Laws taken from N in N... | |
ID: 52994 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I would recommend using an Anti-Static ESD grounding mat kit with a wrist strap and the proper grounding connection to the wall outlet. | |
ID: 53003 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I would recommend using an Anti-Static ESD grounding mat kit with a wrist strap and the proper grounding connection to the wall outlet. Thank you for your kind advice. I find the solution proposed excelent for working at workshop. I also would recommend it. It combines maximum security for both electronics and operators. But I personally find it somehow uncomfortable for working in the field. So one ends up developing some (not so advisable) alternative strategies... | |
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I have a portable ESD field service kit. The mat folds and fits into a pouch along with the other items. The kit also fits into my laptop bag. | |
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Choosing the right Power Supply Unit (PSU). | |
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A totally or partially defective PSU may cause a wide variety of problems at affected computer: | |
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Great post! | |
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When replacing modular PSUs: | |
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When replacing modular PSUs: Good punctualization. Thank you very much again! If anybody thinking to replace a modular PSU and keep the old cables, Please, forget it. Always retire old cables and install the cable set coming with the new PSU. A good source of info about PSUs: I also take note of this interesting link. | |
ID: 53365 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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There are specific tools to easier diagnose PSUs, as the one shown below. | |
ID: 53401 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I have recently read about a special thermal "grease". | |
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Been using it for about a year now Zoltan for some of my bigger machines with higher thread counts. Was recommended by one of my teammates and never thought about it again. Good information. | |
ID: 53414 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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See the manufacturer's page for reference: Thank you for your post, Retvari Zoltan. Thermal conductivity specifications for Conductonaut are really impressive. In the other hand, as you remark, it is contraindicated in live circuits due to its electrical conductivity. Following image comes from a true thermal paste replacing operation in one of my graphics cards: As seen in the image, GPU chip core usually is surrounded by capacitors (here remarked by red ellipses). That white compound between many of them is the reamining non-conductive factory thermal paste. Those capacitors would be shortcircuited if in contact with an electrically-conductive compound... Been using it for about a year now But used with due precautions where indicated, it's worth it. Thank you for your feedback, Zalster. I've navigated Thermal Grizzly products, and they have specific solutions for every use. I've got very well impressed by Kryonaut for general purpose applications. | |
ID: 53428 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thermal conductivity specifications for Conductonaut are really impressive.I know. I was afraid of it too. But: The chip is much thicker than the conductors are. This metal compound acts like a fluid, while thermal grease acts like a grease. While it sounds more dangerous, you can apply it more precisely than a grease (you have to do it more carefully though). Conductonaut acts exactly like tin-lead alloy solder on a copper surface. If you ever soldered something to a large copper area of a PCB, you know how it works: the solder bonds to the copper surface, so if you don't use too much of it, it will stay there even if you try to shake it off. Liquid metal has very high surface tension, which holds it together (think of mercury). Because it can be (and it should be) applied in a very thin layer to the whole area of the chip, and to the chip's area on the heatsink, there won't be much excess material pushed out on the sides. The other reason for applying as less as possible that it's quite expensive. But if you want to be extra safe you can cover the capacitors with nail polish (or similar non conductive material) to protect them. | |
ID: 53429 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Another bit of advice for applying Conductonaut: | |
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Now I understand the mechanics for this product. | |
ID: 53431 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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On my single GPU systems I experienceIt's a little more complex than that: If you have a decent heatsink on your GPU (the GPU temperature is around 70°C), and the thermal paste is thin also it's in good condition, then the temperature decrease will be "only" around 5°C. Smaller chips with decent heatsink (for example GTX 1060 6G) will have only around 5°C decrease. Regardless of its material, good thermal paste is a thin thermal paste, so this way it can make a very thin layer between the chip and the cooler. You can check if your GPU needs a better thermal paste by watching its temperature when the GPUGrid client starts (on a cool GPU). If there's a sudden increase in the GPU temperature, then the thermal paste/grease is too thick, and/or it has become solid. The larger this sudden increase, the larger the benefit of changing the thermal interface material. Another experience I had after I changed the thermal paste (it's better to call it thermal concrete) to Conductonaut on my Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080Ti 11G is that now it makes sense to raise the RPM of the cooling fans even to 100%: 55% 1583rpm: 69°C (original fan curve)
60% 1728rpm: 65°C
70% 2016rpm: 60°C
80% 2304rpm: 56°C
90% 2592rpm: 53°C
100% 2880rpm: 50°C The noise of the fans is tolerable on 70%.Another idea on how to clean copper heatsinks: It's better to use scouring powder (with a little piece of wet paper towel) than polishing paper, because this way the tiny copper grains will stay on the heatsink (also it's easy to clean them off). The surface will be smoother (depending on the grit size of the polishing paper and the scouring powder). | |
ID: 53443 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I've ordered one 1g Conductonaut syringe, and I'm expecting to receive it in less than one month. | |
ID: 53444 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Well, I've received my Conductonaut thermal compound kit this week, and I've already tested. | |
ID: 53508 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Let's make a small correction to my own previous post: Every times a "GTX 1650 Ti" graphics card is mentioned, it should be GTX 1660 Ti. | |
ID: 53511 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I've received my CPU IHS remover kit. It's a Rockit-88 kit. | |
ID: 53514 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Symptom: PSU's Main switch turned from Off to On, an sparking sound is heard, and overcurrent protection at electrical panel goes down (leaving 4 computers without power, by the way). | |
ID: 53634 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Relative tip: Most PSUs have at AC rectifying stage an NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient) resistor (thermistor) for limiting switch on current ...If the PSU is switched off and then on in a rapid sequence, the capacitors in the primary circuit don't have time to discharge, so the inrush current will be low (=no need for the NTC to cool down). Unless those capacitors are broken (= lost the most of their capacity - the visual sign of it is a bump on their top and/or a brownish grunge on the PCB around them / on their top), but in this case it's better to replace the PSU. BTW LED bulbs, other LED lighting, or other switching mode PSUs (flat TVs, set top boxes, gaming consoles, laptops, chargers, printers, etc) also could have larger inrush current (altogether), especially when you arrive at the site after an extended power outage, and all of their capacitors in their primary circuits has been discharged. It's recommended to physically switch all of them off (including PCs), or unplug those without a physical power switch before you switch on the power breaker. After the power breaker is successfully switched on (I have to do it twice in a rapid succession as there are some equipment in our home which have fixed connections to the mains), the PSUs can be switched on one by one, and then the other equipment one by one. For this reason, it is advisable to wait at least (let's say) 10 seconds from switching off to switching on again the PSU, for this component has enough time to cold.I don't think that 10 seconds is enough for the NTC to cool down. It depends on the position of the PSU: If it's at the top, a significant part of the heat from the PC will get there, therefore 10 seconds is way to short time for all the PC to cool down (10-20 minutes are more likely adequate). If the PSU is at the bottom, less time could be sufficient, especially if the fan of the PSU keeps on spinning for a minute after the PC is turned off. But if the primary capacitors are in good condition, it is unnecessary to wait to reduce the inrush current. | |
ID: 53636 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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An interesting article to deepen about thermistors. | |
ID: 53637 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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An interesting article to deepen about thermistors.Nice reading. I didn't know the operating temperature of these thermistors. If they operate at 80-90°C, then 10 seconds is probably enough for them to cool down to 50-60°C, so they will limit the inrush current (not that much if they start from room temperature though). | |
ID: 53639 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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If they operate at 80-90°C... They do. ...then 10 seconds is probably enough for them to cool down to 50-60°C, so they will limit the inrush current (not that much if they start from room temperature though). We agree. Twenty seconds better than 10, but I wanted to state a realistic lapse for us commonly eager crunchers... | |
ID: 53640 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Reading this post, I thought... This can be a challenge for a hardware enthusiast! | |
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Thanks for an enjoyable project tour. | |
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The problem: | |
ID: 53757 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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In line with my last post: | |
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If keen on bricolage and informatics, how about mixing both? | |
ID: 53803 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Does this card run at a lower temperature than before? One more adapt was needed, because fans connectors were not compatible.The original card doesn't have a 3rd pin (tachometer), so the card can't sense if the fan is not rotating. This is not a good setup for crunching. A final question for users that may have experienced a similar situation: Is fan usually covered by card's warranty?These cards are made for light gaming, not hardcore (7/24) crunching, so crunching (mining) isn't covered by warranty. But GPUs don't have an operating hours counter, so if you don't explicitly express on the RMA form that you used it for crunching, they will replace it. But the replacement will be the same quality, so I usually replace the fans (or the complete heatsink assembly) for a better one. If so, is the whole card replaced by distributor, or the fan only?It depends, but usually the whole card is replaced, then the broken card is sent to the manufacturer for refurbishing (replacing the fan in this case). | |
ID: 53806 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Does this card run at a lower temperature than before? Yes and no. Peak temperatures are about two degrees lower now, as new heatsink and fan are bigger than originals. Explanation continues below. The original card doesn't have a 3rd pin (tachometer), so the card can't sense if the fan is not rotating. Right. This is by this card's design. However, Fan % is temperature controlled. And also by design, at full load card seems to "feel comfortable" at 78ºC. If temperature tends to lower this, also Fan % is lowered and temperature accomodates 78ºC again. But now Fan % at stability is about 10 % lower than with original heatsink/fan (60 % instead of previous observed 70%). ...they will replace it. But the replacement will be the same quality, so I usually replace the fans (or the complete heatsink assembly) for a better one. I thought the same when evaluating solution. This card is not installed in an easy environment: it is directly abobe a GTX 1660 Ti, in this double graphics card computer. | |
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As of current restrictions in many countries due to COVID-19 impact: | |
ID: 53954 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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- Symptom: A computer controlling an important process suddenly switched off by itself. Repeated attemps to switch it on again resulted in switching off after a few seconds past. | |
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Finally, my adventure with Conductonaut thermal compound ended in an unexpected way. | |
ID: 54175 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thermalright TF8 Thermal Compound Paste is the best I've used. It has the highest thermal conductivity at 13.8 W/mK. The best thing about it is that when you remove the CPU cooler after months of use it's still gooey and hasn't solidified like most others. It's the most expensive, until competition comes along. One wants the thinnest continuous layer you can get so use as little as possible and use the spatula to spread it out. I expect it can last for years. | |
ID: 54176 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Finally, my adventure with Conductonaut thermal compound ended in an unexpected way.This is very strange. I didn't experienced such change in the liquidity of the Conductonaut, and the temperatures of my CPUs / GPUs on which I've changed the thermal grease. | |
ID: 54184 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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This is very strange. I didn't experienced such change in the liquidity of the Conductonaut... I guess that tested heatsink's core is not made of pure copper, but some kind of alloy not compatible with Conductonaut. | |
ID: 54204 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Derived from current COVID-19 regulations at Spain, requiring home confinement, a challenge arose: | |
ID: 54315 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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If we call severe to a problem that prevents a computer to start working. | |
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A stuck power button can cause this: first it turns on the system, but if it stays in the "pressed" state it will turn off the system after 4-5 seconds (hard power off). | |
ID: 54369 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Bad PSU | |
ID: 54370 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Bad PSU From my experience, the PSU is most likely to be problematic. Just sayin'. | |
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- Symptom: Starting the system, it runs for some seconds, then it stops and nothing happens on following attempts to restart. - Cause: Power On button got temporarily hooked, causing the PSU's hard stop feature to suspend supply after a few seconds. On the tilt and maneuvers to contacts checking, Power On button disengaged, and then it got hooked again on next time it was pressed. - Solution: Usually it is possible to access to Power On button switch, most of times by dismounting chassis front panel. Here is an image of the affected switch at its mounting position, and once it is dismounted. Nowadays, it is a normally-open push-button. A click must be heard when pushing it, and another click when releasing it. Problem was solved by dispensing a few drops of ethanol and pushing it repeatedly until it became disengaged and moving freely. Pretty trivial and ridiculous, but I'm sure that maaany computers have gone to workshop for a problem like this... On Apr 18th 2020 | 19:16:08 UTC Retvari Zoltan wrote: A stuck power button can cause this: first it turns on the system, but if it stays in the "pressed" state it will turn off the system after 4-5 seconds (hard power off). Congratulations! You have won an image of my special Gold - Medal to Outstanding Analyst. (Well... Excuse me, it is not exactly gold, it is really high quality bronze ;-) And my special thanks to Ian&Steve C. and Pop Piasa for participating. | |
ID: 54379 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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finally I was able to finish up my newest GPUGRID system. It's one of my old SETI systems, but I needed to convert it from USB risers to ribbon risers (and motherboard swap) for the increased PCIe bandwidth requirements here. | |
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🙌 | |
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I'm really impressed watching at your systems. | |
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finally I was able to finish up my newest GPUGRID system. It's one of my old SETI systems, but I needed to convert it from USB risers to ribbon risers (and motherboard swap) for the increased PCIe bandwidth requirements here.Nice! | |
ID: 54393 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Impressive. Thanks for the photos and description. | |
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Great Googly-Moogly! You rule, Retvari! | |
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he was quoting my post but fixed the hyperlinks for the images. I forgot that this site breaks urls that already include http in the link in BBcode. | |
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On April 20th 2020 | 19:48:27 UTC Ian&Steve C. wrote: finally I was able to finish up my newest GPUGRID system... On April 20th 2020 | 23:32:26 UTC, Retvari Zoltan kindly "revealed" the images for this system, previously not able to be seen in original post. (Thank you!) I'm not letting pass away two comments about it: - I can't imagine a cleaner way to build a system like this. It's not only a "processing bomb", but also it is elegantly resolved. - In 24 hours processing, since its first valid result on April 20th 2020 at 19:11 UTC to today's same hour: it had returned 270 valid WUs, and 0 (zero) errored WUs: 100% success. Well done! It has qualified its first working day with maximum score. | |
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😳 Oops... sorry guys. I was so busy drooling over the rig that I forgot to read the header. | |
ID: 54423 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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😳 Oops... sorry guys. I was so busy drooling over the rig that I forgot to read the header. I took cues from my experience with cryptocurrency mining. this is a pretty common type of mining setup, and the frame was cheap ($35 on Amazon), though most people doing that will use USB risers instead of these ribbon risers, both for cost and power delivery reasons. I actually had most of this hardware already, I converted it from a USB riser setup to a ribbon riser setup for the transition to GPUGRID. Some things to keep in mind if you want to do something like this:
2. GPUGRID requires a lot of PCIe bandwidth, and that likely scales with GPU speed. I've measured up to 50% of a PCIe use on a PCIe 3.0 x8 link, or up to 25% of a PCIe 3.0 x16 link with my RTX 2070 and 2080 cards. If you have a fast GPU, I would not put it on anything slower than PCIe 3.0 x4 (not common anyway) or PCIe 2.0 x8. slower GPUs might get by on slower links. 3. Be mindful of how much power you are pulling from the motherboard. When using USB risers you do not have to worry about this since power is supplied from external connections. But a setup like mine is pulling some of the GPU power from the motherboard slots. My motherboard has a 6-pin VGA power connection to supply extra power to the motherboard PCIe slots. PCIe spec for a x16 slot is up to 75W each! but most GPUs won't pull that much (except 75W GPUs that do not have external power!). If you plug GPUs directly to the motherboard, or use ribbon risers like I have, I wouldn't recommend using more than 3, maybe 4 GPUs (pushing it) unless you are supplying extra power to the board somehow. 4. if on a PCIe 3.0 link, you'll want to get higher quality shielded risers. PCIe 3.0 is a lot more susceptible to interference and crosstalk in the data lines than PCIe 2.0 or 1.0. The shielded risers are a lot more expensive though. I bought what I consider to be "good enough" knockoffs and they work perfectly fine, but were still $25 each, and that's kind of the low end of the pricing for 20cm long risers. out of 14 of these brand risers that I've purchased, 2 were defective (bad PCIe signal quality causing low GPU utilization and GPU dropouts) and needed to be replaced, so test them!
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Wow thanks a million! Info I will definitely use. | |
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Im Running V8-XEON built in May 2013 by myself. | |
ID: 54437 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Im Running V8-XEON built in May 2013 by myself. Thank you very much for sharing your setup. Casually, my oldest self-made system currently in production is this one, built on March 12th 2013, and from then, it has experienced successive upgrades. It has cathed my attention that your system was built the same year, and for that time it was a quite advanced configuration, based on a bi-Xeon E5405 processor. One particular trick: When I'm interested on any Intel processor specifications, I enter on Google web search "ark E5405" (for example), and the first match leads to something like this... Best regards, | |
ID: 54445 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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One of my best headless computers was giving me a lot of trouble. Intermittently it would just stop crunching but still be powered up. Sometimes rebooting would get it going again, for a while anyway. So I put it on my desk with a monitor and started swapping power cables and RAM. Then it failed while I was watching and the GPU lights came back on even though I had --assign GPULogoBrightness=0 active in the NVIDIA X Server Settings startup program. At the same time the fans went to max even though it wasn't hot. So I pulled the GPU card to try another and the locking clip on the back of the PCIe socket popped off. I got a flashlight and was trying to figure out how to reinstall the clip when I noticed dirt inside the slot on the contacts. EVGA cards are notorious for having this clear fluid ooze out and sometimes drip down on the motherboard. I assume it's a thermal compound but don't know. It seems to be nonconductive and I've had it on the card contacts before without stopping it from working. I always wipe the card clean when I take them out. But this time I looked in the female PCIe slot with my magnifying glass and saw the contacts were coated with a dusty grime that was mixed in this mystery fluid. I took a toothbrush and cleaner the slot out and then blew it out. Put the same card back and so far so good. One more thing to add to the troubleshooting list. | |
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The "mystery" fluid that oozes out of graphics cards is the silicon oil separating from the thermal pads on the VRM and memory chips or the from the thermal paste. | |
ID: 54509 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I noticed dirt inside the slot on the contacts. EVGA cards are notorious for having this clear fluid ooze out and sometimes drip down on the motherboard. ...1. Cards made by any manufacturer leak this silicon oil if they are used long and hot enough. The oil's viscosity is much less on higher temperatures, so the thermal pads / grease leaks noticeable quantity of it over time. 2. Conductivity is a tricky property. It varies greatly depending on the frequency of the electromagnetic wave. Think of vacuum, which is the best insulator, light and radio waves still can travel through vacuum, as their frequency is high enough. The state of the art computers operate at the microwave frequency (GigaHertz) range, so the grime which is non-conductive on DC acts as a dielectric of a capacitor, which "turns" into a conductor at high frequencies. As grime builds up over time, it's capacitance increases, thus it's conductivity at high frequencies increases, and when it's enough to push the PCIe bus out of specifications, the GPU won't work anymore (or it will run at PCIe2.0 instead of 3.0). | |
ID: 54513 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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On May 1st 2020 | 1:14:34 UTC Aurum wrote: One more thing to add to the troubleshooting list. Thank to all of you for helping to complete with this topic this somehow never-ending list. Moreover, "non-conductive" fluids have usually a very high "efficiency" in retaining dust particles, that sometimes are conductive themselves, or when dampening with environment humidity... And then (misterious) problem(s) may arise. | |
ID: 54514 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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1. Silicone oil, that makes perfect sense. I was tempted to turn the MB upside down and spray the slots with either isopropyl alcohol or brake cleaner (methanol, toluene, acetone & CO2). Thought better of it since the solvents might dissolve the phenolic or epoxy resin and my board would disintegrate in my hands :-) | |
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I've always found that not reading all the sticks of installed memory on Intel LGA socket motherboards is due the cpu not being inserted correctly in the socket. | |
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I'm seeing X99 motherboards (e.g. i7-6950X or Xeon E5-2673 v4) that use DDR3 RAM or both slots for DDR3 & DDR4 to be used in an either/or way. My first reaction is what a nice way to get some more mileage from my old DDR3. | |
ID: 54673 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Is there a technical reason that combining DDR3 memory with the X99 generation of CPUs will slow them down or disable some of their functionality??? I've found the motherboard you probably are referring to: http://www.huananzhi.com/html/1//184/185/362.html My experience with combo mainboards: I asked myself the same question several years ago... but when I was trying to squeeze a bit more some DDR2 memory modules. I bought this MSI G41M-P33 COMBO It is still working at my system #540272 But I've found several drawbaks that had made me to think not to repeat this policy. Now this motherboard is running with 8GB of DDR3 1333 MHz, for better performance than DDR2 800 MHz on CPU tasks. But I've had to set DDR3 1333 MHz to run at 1066 MHz for system stability reasons. (1333 MHZ is specified as overclock for this G41+ICH7 chipset) And recently I've found new Nvidia Turing based graphics cards not being compatible with this motherboard. System doesn't even start. I'm running a GTX 950 on it for this reason... On the other hand, your suggested motherboard has attractive specifications, and it has made me to enter in doubt about my previous determination 🤔️ Some other opinions or experiences would be welcome... | |
ID: 54676 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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you need to use specific CPUs that support both DDR3 and DDR4, and none of them have official intel ark pages. there appear to only be a handful of them: | |
ID: 54677 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Ok that explains the ad I saw with that list of CPUs but no explanation: | |
ID: 54678 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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You are probably right.This is very strange. I didn't experienced such change in the liquidity of the Conductonaut... My Gigabyte AORUS GTX 1080 Ti showed the same symptoms (its GPU temperature rose to 90°C). First I cleaned its fins, but there were no change in GPU temperature, so I reduced its power target to 150W until I could remove the card again for disassembly. After I did, I've noticed that the TGC has solidified, and completely gone from the silicone of the GPU chip. So I re-applied some TGC on both surfaces, and assembled the card. Now it's running fine again (71°C). I regularly check the temperatures of my GPUs, so I'm sure that this change in the physical state of TGC was quite sudden. However I have a GTX 2080 Ti with a copper heatsink, and it's running fine. Other cards with nickel(?) heatsinks and TGC are running fine. I keep an eye on them, if another one will have higher temperatures I'll disassemble that card too. | |
ID: 55052 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm pleased to return to posting, after a forced silent period: my main computer crashed (the same computer I'm writing this from), and I had to recover it first. | |
ID: 55054 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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A very specific problem, with a simple preventive action: sudo iwconfig -3) Something like this is obtained: wlx031415926536 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:"WLAN_PI" -4) Watch at the line "Power Management". If it is indicated to be off, the problem is probably due to other reasons. If it is on: -5) Type command sudo gedit /etc/rc.localto edit rc.local file. -6) Add the line iwconfig wlx031415926536 power offimmediately before the last line. Note that the string "wlx031415926536" must be equal to the one starting the list obtained in step 3. -7) The resulting file would look as follows: #!/bin/sh -e -8) Save changes to rc.local file and reboot. After following theese steps, when entering the same command than in step 2, the answer would look something like this: wlx031415926536 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:"WLAN_PI" Note that Power Management now is off. And if so, WiFi network interface will remain always active. ____________ | |
ID: 55083 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Another recurrent hardware problem to be mentioned: | |
ID: 55117 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Now, a very disturbing temperature problem, demonstrating the importance of proper refrigeration: | |
ID: 55129 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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As of this kind rod4x4's suggestion: | |
ID: 55132 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Some corrections to my previous post: By any chance, I had one 60x60x25 12 VDC fan, and another 70x70x25, this last with integral speed sensor. For being more precise: The true dimentions for both fans were 60x60x12 mm and 70x70x15 mm. And I didn't have those fans "by any chance". I like to have assorted spare fans, because this component is a relatively frequent failing one... I'll also add a close detail for screw fixing and cable tie fixing. And two more curiosities: - I found the mentioned graphics card's invoice. I purchased it on 01/16/2015. Cost (taxes included): 159,00 € - After about one week of working in its "new life", this card has successfully processed 27 GPUGrid tasks, with no errors so far. | |
ID: 55151 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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-1) Let's start by dismounting the fans frame. Now the heatsink is at sight. Great work and attention to detail. My Fans are cable tied very roughly, nowhere near as good as your setup. Another option for powering the fans and bypass the soldering stage (I am very lazy), is to use a free Chassis fan header on the Motherboard and set it to around 50% (depending on environment and fan size) or just use a molex adapter to fan 3 pin with a voltage reducing cable. Currently running GTX750 and GTX750ti with case fans. | |
ID: 55154 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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TGC has solidified on another GPU (RTX 2080Ti this time) in one of my hosts. | |
ID: 55182 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thank you very much for your feedback | |
ID: 55185 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I read this thread and decided to shut down my computer and blow my heat sinks out with Office Depot Cleaning Duster. *COUGH COUGH COUGH* Large dust cloud!! I guess 2 years is a bit long to wait. | |
ID: 55186 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I read this thread and decided to shut down my computer and blow my heat sinks out... I applaud your decision. Computers are very avid dust-eating animals. And this can lead to indigestion if not treated on time... | |
ID: 55187 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Guys, I highly recommend Hydronaut by Thermal Grizzly. It beats both the Noctua and Arctic Silver thermal grease I was using by several degrees C. | |
ID: 55188 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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It filled the room, lol. I had to leave for a few minutes. | |
ID: 55209 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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May I ask you hardware enthusiasts to double-check my thoughts on running BOINC on the new RTX 3070/3080/3090 range? | |
ID: 55324 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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May I ask you hardware enthusiasts to double-check my thoughts on running BOINC on the new RTX 3070/3080/3090 range? I think you are correct Richard. Basically you will have to duplicate your fix for the Pascal to Turing transition for CUDA cores per SM in reverse for the Ampere cards. 128 cores per SM for Ampere and the two concurrent FP32 pipelines. Would be best for someone with and actual card running and BOINC 7.6.11 running to report what BOINC shows for computed GFLOPS. | |
ID: 55330 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Would be best for someone with and actual card running and BOINC 7.6.11 running to report what BOINC shows for computed GFLOPS. Absolutely - yes, please. Ray Hinchliffe has shown me a SIV report of 29,768 GFlops for an RTX 3080, and of 37,461 GFlops for an RTX 3090 - but those are still calculated values, albeit using a different method. He has a card on delivery, but my local supplier is still awaiting stock - and rationing orders to one per customer in the early days. | |
ID: 55331 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I saw a note that EVGA is expecting "thousands" of 3080 chips into inventory in the future. I am still awaiting the hybrid version to appear on their website. | |
ID: 55332 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Let's begin this post with a thermal experiment: | |
ID: 55365 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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My cards are all still alive and working after ten years or more. Going all the way back to a GTX460. | |
ID: 55368 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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My cards are all still alive and working after ten years or more. Going all the way back to a GTX460. That speaks very well about your ability to take care of your hardware... | |
ID: 55369 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I don't want to steer the direction this thread is taking off-topic here, but was just curious when reading this: ... significant memory overclock of 400-2000Mhz to compensate for the Nvidia compute penalty on consumer cards ... Is this really true? I have read this many times now and am starting to wonder, if instead of overclocking (if at all) the core and memory clock at roughly the same rate ~100 MHz (GTX 750 Ti), it would be wiser, to decrease/suspend core clock OC and consider after testing a more substantial memory OC setting. At least I could test this out. Do you have any personal experience with this issue across various gens that you could share with me? Thanks | |
ID: 55377 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I don't want to steer the direction this thread is taking off-topic here, but was just curious when reading this: This is true for Pascal and Turing cards that are limited to Performance level P2 when compute functions are detected. The above quoted memory clocking takes the Performance level back to P0 levels. Maxwell cards (gtx 750ti) can benefit from memory overclocking but are not Performance limited like the Pascal and Turing cousins when computing. Maxwell cards do go to Performance level P0 without overclocking the memory. | |
ID: 55379 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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... | |
ID: 55380 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I don't want to steer the direction this thread is taking off-topic here, but was just curious when reading this: yup, but it's only the memory clock that is affected. and some cards even in the Pascal and Turing generations aren't affected, but only the low end models like the 1050ti and the 1650. these cards seem to have no penalty. overclocking the memory is easy in the P2 state, and it brings performance right back to where it would be otherwise. ____________ ![]() | |
ID: 55381 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Interesting topic. | |
ID: 55385 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thanks for your insightful answer! very much appreciated | |
ID: 55398 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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0_6-GERARD_pocket_discovery_f0a0d98e_6ca4_446d_b600_a00239226478-2-3-RND5078 initial replication 2 This is a great chance to see 2 GPUs compared running identical tasks. Be sure to check the other GPU's time and get a better perspective of how yours compares. | |
ID: 55615 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Hardware Microcosmos | |
ID: 55630 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Hardware Microcosmos A different perspective of PC and it's parts. Nice journey. My favourite picture was the "cursor on white background". Not what most people would expect. | |
ID: 55631 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Maybe someone here can help me? I have 2 GTX 1070 GPUs in my Core I7 desktop, device 0 is running, device 1 is inactive. There is plenty of work in my BOINC cue but no applications running on the second GPU, lights lit but fans not running. Does anyone know how I might wake it up or figure out what is wrong? It has done this before and then eventually started running again without any help from me. When it runs it only runs one application, the other one runs several. Thanks- | |
ID: 55633 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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no applications running on the second GPU, lights lit but fans not running Depending on the graphics card model, this behavior might be normal: Some models only activate fans when GPU gets hotter than certain temperature, not reached if your GPU is iddle. Try editing your cc_config.xml file, usually located at C:\ProgramData\BOINC directory, and add in <options> section the following line: <cc_config> Save the changes, reboot computer, and see if this helps... | |
ID: 55634 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Will do, thanks! I played a few rounds of World of Warships and now it is running again. I don't know if it had anything to do with it but it seems like I can eliminate the possibility of a hardware problem if it runs part of the time. | |
ID: 55636 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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System is Windows 10. I don't see a Program Data folder in C, I see Program Files. Inside Program Files is a BOINC folder. Inside it is boinc, boinccmd, boincscr, boincmgr, boincsvcctrl, and boinctray. When I double-click boinc it opens a DOS window that says cc_config.xml not found - using defaults. I don't know where to enter the command. | |
ID: 55637 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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System is Windows 10. I don't see a Program Data folder in C You're right. ProgramData folder is hidden by default in Windows 10. Try searching in Search option for "folder", select "Folder Options", then "View" tab, and check "Show hidden files and folders" option. Then ProgramData folder will become visible. | |
ID: 55638 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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There's no need for that. Hidden directories can be accessed if you know the exact path of that given folder.System is Windows 10. I don't see a Program Data folder in C So 1. mark this: C:\ProgramData\BOINC and press <CTRL+C> (it copies the marked text to the clipboard) 1. press <windows key + E> (the Windows explorer is opened) 3. click on the address bar field and press <CTRL+V> (the C:\ProgramData\BOINC text should appear there) 4. press <ENTER> 5. now you should see the cc_config.xml file, right click on it, and select "edit" from the context menu. | |
ID: 55639 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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1. mark this: C:\ProgramData\BOINC and press <CTRL+C> (it copies the marked text to the clipboard) Nice, elegant way to do the job 👍️ | |
ID: 55640 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Nice, elegant way to do the job 👍️ Once. If you think you might ever want to do this again, it's better to go the folder properties route - then, you don't have to find an example to copy. It'll always be visible. | |
ID: 55641 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Suddenly, a few days ago, on November 5th 2020, grew nine (9) twin hosts like this one #566744, owned by an anonymous user. | |
ID: 55719 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Suddenly, a few days ago, on November 5th 2020, grew nine (9) twin hosts like this one #566744, owned by an anonymous user. I usually keep a close eye on my systems, as well as others just for curiosity and keeping an eye on the competition :P So I noticed when they showed up. They belong to Syracuse University, it wasn't hard to figure out which systems belong to them even if they have it hidden. here's one of them: https://stats.free-dc.org/host/ps3/566770 they showed up with 9 systems, each containing 10x Quadro RTX 6000 GPUs. these are a little slower than a 2080ti. I was curious how they got so many GPUs in a single system as I was sure a university wouldn't be making custom builds like this to house in mining racks like i do, but I also wasn't aware of any servers that supported 10x GPUs (most stop at 8). then I came across this: https://www.servethehome.com/dell-emc-dss-8440-10x-gpu-4u-server-launched/ and with 9 or 10 of these, upwards of 100x GPUs in a whole server rack. just imagine that cost LOL. I'm sure they don't plan to just use these for DC projects and just run them on BOINC for load testing and/or in their downtime. Probably doing some cool AI/ML or other compute heavy research over there. ____________ ![]() | |
ID: 55721 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Very impressive indeed. Couldn't have imagined that they belong to a private individual... Lol. Just imagining 100 GPUs in a server rack... Besides the incredible electricity consumption, just trying to fathom the noise level, the requirement for a superior cooling solution etc. Needless to say: that's a beast! | |
ID: 55728 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Fascinating, I just ran a dual GERARD task with the anonymous donor and the computer was this: Owner Anonymous It completed in 5,383.87 seconds compared to my GTX 1650 needing 24,258.18 seconds to complete. I'd love to know what motherboard it is and if that was actually a Quadro RTX 6000, or a lesser GPU among the ten. Here is where the BOINC Manager needs a tweak to make it individualize multiple GPUs and their stats. | |
ID: 55786 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Fascinating, I just ran a dual GERARD task with the anonymous donor and the computer was this: check my reply 2 posts up. it's likely that dell system I linked to. using risers or daughterboards to connect the GPU (fore) to the system (aft). it's possible that they are different GPUs in the system, since we really cant know for sure due to the way BOINC reports coprocessors. but I'm 99.9999% sure that system belongs to Syracuse University, and given the level of hardware, and the customer, it's likely they bought this solution complete from Dell with matching hardware. the RTX 6000 performs closely to a 2080ti so it's no surprise that it's almost 5x faster than a 1650 ____________ ![]() | |
ID: 55790 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Here's what I wish for this Christmas but only the Pope can afford... | |
ID: 55801 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Here's what I wish for this Christmas but only the Pope can afford... With 16 Tesla V100 SXM3s, I figure it could knock down close to 20 million a day. At 350W apiece, I'd probably need an extra ton of A/C in the summer and ducting to the rack. In the winter it would provide ample heat to lower my Propane use. ---------------- the RTX 6000 performs closely to a 2080ti so it's no surprise that it's almost 5x faster than a 1650 I think that would put the Dell server in the neighborhood of 11 million a day in credit. Awesome. | |
ID: 55803 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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they showed up with 9 systems, each containing 10x Quadro RTX 6000 GPUs. these are a little slower than a 2080ti. I was curious how they got so many GPUs in a single system as I was sure a university wouldn't be making custom builds like this to house in mining racks like i do, but I also wasn't aware of any servers that supported 10x GPUs (most stop at 8). then I came across this: https://www.servethehome.com/dell-emc-dss-8440-10x-gpu-4u-server-launched/ What I have ever found admirable is how smoothly Linux OS seems to manage these kind of massive Multi CPU/GPU systems. A curious detail: Navigating GPUGrid hosts list I found this host #566140. Comparing it to this other host #566749: * Host #566140 - Owner: Anonymous - CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 6248R CPU @ 3.00GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 7] - Processors amount: 24 - Coprocessors: [5] NVIDIA Quadro RTX 6000 (4095MB) driver: 452.57 - RAM: 31999.55 MB - OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Enterprise x64 Edition, (10.00.18362.00) - Current RAC at GPUGrid (2020/11/21 14:55 UTC): 169,764.77 - Current host position by RAC at GPUGrid: 925 * Host #566749 - Owner: Anonymous - CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 6248R CPU @ 3.00GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 7] - Processors amount: 96 - Coprocessors: [10] NVIDIA Quadro RTX 6000 (4095MB) driver: 450.80 - RAM: 361856.6 MB - OS: Linux Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS [5.4.0-52-generic|libc 2.31 (Ubuntu GLIBC 2.31-0ubuntu9)] - Current RAC at GPUGrid (2020/11/21 14:55 UTC): 4,004,328.46 - Current host position by RAC at GPUGrid: 4 I leave for everyone's homework to take conclusions... Finally, as a hardware enthusiast, I don't want to miss the opportunity to recommend this interesting Ian&Steve C. thread: 8 GPUs on a motherboard with 7 PCIe slots: Bifurcation | |
ID: 55804 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I imagine it’s the same physical system. They probably are running virtualization or doing some other form of resource partitioning and allocation. And probably found out what a lot of us know already, that the apps are just faster under Linux. About 15-20% faster. | |
ID: 55805 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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...apps are just faster under Linux. About 15-20% faster. That's for sure. Windows is all about itself anymore. Users are all assimilated into the Borg. They insist on all users running umpteen million largely useless processes which sap the machine progressively until you break down and buy a faster one. Here's my own experience on WU 0_1-GERARD_pocket_discovery_aca700f5_8d26_46c9_bce3_baf63237f164-0-2-RND7116_1 Operating System Linux Ubuntu Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS [5.4.0-52-generic|libc 2.31 (Ubuntu GLIBC 2.31-0ubuntu9)] Run time 5,383.87 CPU time 5,378.54 vs. Operating System Microsoft Windows 10 Professional x64 Edition, (10.00.19041.00) Run time 24,258.18 CPU time 24,095.42 Those stats appear to support your statement very well, Ian. My i5-10400 runs at only 70% usage (6 threads of WCG along with ACEMD using 2 GPUs) so bandwidth is not an issue in my comparison. Unless I missed something, the Ubuntu OS only wasted around 5 seconds in a 90 minute run and my Win10 OS wasted 163 seconds during a run lasting 6 hrs and 45 mins. That's around 24 seconds lost per hour for windows and only 3 or 4 seconds per hour lost under Linux. It also looks pretty consistent as I peruse the stats, so I don't think this example is an outlier. A better OS that's free is well worth the effort of learning to use it. | |
ID: 55806 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Viewing the volunteers page I noticed that Anonymous has verified Ian's discovery that they are really Syracuse U. I hope we can engage them in conversation. I'd love to know more about their endeavors. | |
ID: 55807 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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PWM fan fireworks | |
ID: 55808 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Great repair summary. I have a EVGA 2070 that has a failed/failing fan that most of the time won't spin up. Sometimes I get lucky on a reboot and it will spin up and run until rebooted again. | |
ID: 55809 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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The magic smoke makes ICs to work. If it is ever released, the IC won't work anymore. | |
ID: 55810 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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The magic smoke makes ICs to work. If it is ever released, the IC won't work anymore. That is gold! ServicEnginIC, your microscope takes excellent pictures! | |
ID: 55812 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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probably stemmed from all the corrosion on pin#3. | |
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That's not corrosion. That is the pin and trace burned up. The IC died not just internally. | |
ID: 55814 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I live in an inner, mid heigth (580 m above sea level) zone, in Canary Island of Tenerife. | |
ID: 55815 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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... under warranty but I have been reluctant to RMA it and lose production. I have the same issue with a MSI Z490-A PRO motherboard. When I load the memory properly or load all the slots, it won't boot. when I just use slots 3 and 4 it runs normally and even though it reports single channel memory it benchmarks well. It has the latest BIOS version and all MSI will do is tell me they'll give me an RMA#. Next machine will be Asrock/evga, I'm thinkin. | |
ID: 55816 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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That is the pin and trace burned up. The IC died not just internally. Ouch, Keith. Would an aftermarket liquid cooling system work? | |
ID: 55817 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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... under warranty but I have been reluctant to RMA it and lose production. Anytime you are dealing with a LGA socket and missing memory channels, first thing to do is pull the cpu, examine the socket pins for any pins on the outside rows that are out of alignment and then reseat the cpu and wiggle it a bit in the socket before clamping down the retention mechanism. Reboot and see if the missing memory channels show up. The alignment of the pad to pin is fairly critical. On the order of 40 microns C-C. | |
ID: 55820 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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That is the pin and trace burned up. The IC died not just internally. Not really, the fan controller died. The card still works quite well, just at a higher temp than it would if both fans ran all the time. I always run my gpu fans at 100% all the time. I normally use EVGA Hybrid gpus exclusively but in this host I made my first attempt at custom gpu water cooling with a 1080 Ti and 2080 water blocked. The issue is that I can't really fit the usual hybrid card between the two custom blocked cards because the hybrid hoses occupy the same location as the bridge between the two custom cards. So I ended up using standard air cooled cards for the middle card between the two custom blocks. That card gets hot because their is no room to breathe. It runs both its fans all the time with no issue. But the one card that has an intermittent fan did not cut it in that location. So it got moved to the outside of the stack next the side panel and it cools fairly well even with just one fan running most of the time. I have plenty of gpus I can substitute in that host, just not of the same caliber as the 2070. I never could figure out where to mount a hybrid card in that location because the hoses are not long enough to reach where I actually could mount a hybrids radiator. The roof of the case is occupied by two 360mm radiators for the two custom loops. | |
ID: 55821 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I would be curious in your opinion about the storage requirement for a dual boot system. Currently, I plan to load Win 10 and ubuntu 20.04 LTS. Should a 120GB SSD suffice for this purpose? Or rather 250GB? Didn't mean to interrupt the ongoing discussion here, but never seemed to find the right moment to ask this question. | |
ID: 55829 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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My personal preference for dual boot systems is to install each operating system at its own independent drive, and use Linux GRUB to select which OS is starting at every boot. | |
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+100 | |
ID: 55831 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Anytime you are dealing with a LGA socket and missing memory channels, first thing to do is pull the cpu, examine the socket pins for any pins on the outside rows that are out of alignment and then reseat the cpu and wiggle it a bit in the socket before clamping down the retention mechanism. Thanks Keith, I'll give that another try the next time we run out of work. The first time I did that I only checked for bent pins like the MSI support auto-reply states. Socket 1200 must have very tiny pins because I really didn't see them. Next time I'll use loops to examine things. I really appreciate your learned advice. | |
ID: 55832 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Anytime you are dealing with a LGA socket and missing memory channels, first thing to do is pull the cpu, examine the socket pins for any pins on the outside rows that are out of alignment and then reseat the cpu and wiggle it a bit in the socket before clamping down the retention mechanism. Yes, I have had issues with both a TR socket and a 2011v-3 socket that wouldn't read all the memory. A wiggle on the TR got it centered on the pins to read all channels. On the 2011v-3 socket I had to move about 8 pins that were out of alignment. A 10X jewelers loupe and strong illumination is best. I use a very bright tactical flashlight shining at low angle across the pins. What you are looking for is any pin ball-tip reflection that is out of alignment in X-Y with the other pins in the row and columns. Then I used a sewing needle to gently nudge the pins back into alignment. Took about an hour and in the end I had all my memory channels reading correctly and the cpu is running well overclocked to this day. | |
ID: 55833 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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On the 2011v-3 socket I had to move about 8 pins that were out of alignment. A 10X jewelers loupe and strong illumination is best. I use a very bright tactical flashlight shining at low angle across the pins. Fantastic! With socket LGA775 it was much easier. Doing this with 2011 socket is a truly feat... | |
ID: 55839 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Okay, so I'm supposed to find the outer rows of pins on the processor and check the alignment with loops under bright light. Next time I reboot to patch my funky windows OS I'll give it a go. This z490 board seems flawless otherwise and with 2 GTX 1650's putting out around 525,000 between them while my i5-10400 crunches 8 threads of WCG tasks, they're averaging close to the 225,000 benchmark that was no doubt set by a Linux machine when rod4x4 surveyed the stats. | |
ID: 55840 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I did some research on the 2011v3 socket in pin assignments and looked for the pins that handle Channel D. | |
ID: 55842 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Most NVME SSDs that don't come included with a heatsink usually have a warranty sticker on top. Some manufactures say that their stickers are meant to improve heat transfer as there are apparently woven copper lines in it. While I question that, they also void warranty if the sticker is removed. Now my question, if the mobo comes with included heatsinks for the M2 NVME drives: | |
ID: 55857 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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i just put it over the sticker. | |
ID: 55858 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Perfect, so that's what I'll do as well. Thanks! | |
ID: 55859 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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i just put it over the sticker.+1 | |
ID: 55863 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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On June 15th 2020 I related How I had to replace motherboard-memory-processor in a system with failing SATA controller. - Cause: Motherboard's SATA controller section failure. The related failing motherboard is this one. But recently I thought: This motherboard has also an integrated IDE controller, will it be still working? The only way to discover it is giving it a try... Ok, I have motherboard, memory and processor. From my fossils wardrobe I rescued: - An old scrapped minitower chassis - An IDE 160 GB hard disk drive and IDE cable - An IDE DVD optical unit and DVD media with Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS image, dowloaded from Ubuntu official site. - A 600 watts PSU coming from a previous PSU upgrade in a triple GPU system - Two 775 processor copper core heatsinks, discarded due to their fixing backplates were broken - A working GT1030 low power GPU, coming from a GPU upgrade on other system - An ancient Wireless-G PCI network adapter Therefore, I had everything I needed to assemble a "new" host. I first started cutting four healthy backfixings for CPU heatsink, and assembling them into motherboard. Then, a little workmanship and motherboard and peripherals are assembled into chassis. Now, PSU is at position also, just over CPU and adjacent to graphics card in this mini tower compact chassis. Power on! Initial beep sounds, followed by video, entering BIOS setup is successful, and both IDE hard disk and optical unit are recognized. Ok! Time to OS installation. Linux install media is entered into optical unit... but it isn't recognized, and a subsequent try to eject it doesn't work. Well, there is a spanish saying: "Mal comienzo, buen final" ("Bad start, happy ending") Trying with a watchmaker's screwdriver into emergency ejection hole, media platform is out. And taking a look to ejection mechanism pulleys, transmision belt is confirmed to be broken. It is something quite usual, and I like to have spare belts available (spanish "correas") After mounting it back again, now Ubuntu installation media is happily running, and OS installation can be carried on. Was it worth it or not? Now it can be seen working at GPUGrid as host #567828 since november 15th. It has crunched its first million credits with zero errored tasks, and current RAC is over 65000 after 16 days working. This is what I expected to achieve with its 30 Watts TDP low power GPU... I really enjoy giving a second or third life to hardware resources! PS: Due to the diverse provenance of the scrapped parts composing this host, I've called it: "Mr. Frankhostein" ;-) | |
ID: 55867 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Sorry for diverting attention once again away from the recent discussion. Currently I am very confused as to what PSU characteristics are required to be compatible with the B550 Asus Rog Strix Gaming mobos. As far as I understand it, you are supposed to run an 8 pin + 4 pin connector in addition to the standard 24 pin connector powering the mobo. The 8 pin is the usual CPU power connector that supplies the mobo's CPU socket but what is the 4 pin adapter for? The B550 Gaming E/F/F Wifi all seem to have the additional 4 pin connector and I am not sure if the PSU I found on sale today will fit the bill (Corsair RM750i). Am I missing something, or is there really missing a connector to run the mobo (safely)? And many of the researched PSUs seem to be incompatible with them. Is it only additional power needed for extreme overclocking and can be run safely without it or is it a necessary requirement? – The manual of the mentioned mobos labels the referred connectors EATX12V (4+8 pin). Thanks for any advice | |
ID: 55870 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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the 4-pin is exactly half of the 8-pin connector. most PSUs have the 8-pin actualy break out into 2x4-pin. | |
ID: 55871 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Every power supply I own is modular. And they all come with at least 3 EATX power cables. | |
ID: 55872 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thank you both for your explanations! Much appreciated. however, the extra 4-pin is totally unnecessary. you do not have to use it, just the 8-pin is enough. the extra 4-pin is intended to add extra power for extreme overclocking, like using LN2 where you could be pulling huge amounts of power. The extra 4 pin EATX cable is usually intended for multi-gpu usage. The reason is to reduce as much as possible the 12V current draw being supplied by the standard 24-pin EATX motherboard cable. So in essence, could I summarise your replies as following: It is generally safe to run B550 mainstream chipset boards without the extra 4 pin connector as long as I am not planning to run all PCIe Slots with high-end GPUs, however it is not disadvantageous if I were to run it with the 4 pin EATX 12V connector in addition to the 8 pin EATX 12V connector to the CPU but rather avoid unnecessary strain on the PSU? Definitely not in the league of LN-cooling Ian, lol it just seems like something the board manufacturers do because it costs them an extra 5 cents to add the 4-pin, to justify marking the board up another $5.That definitely sounds like something that hardware producers would do... In the end I opted for a mainstream chipset board, that for IMO was the right balance between features and price. The Asus Strix B550 -E Gaming still offers to 2x gen4 x16 slots that run in dual x8 mode. The rest is pretty much standard for mainstream retail boards, and the price premium of nearly 50% over "higher-end" mainstream B550 boards was not justified for me personally. This is pretty much I will require for the foreseeable future. In addition, I didn't like that the X570 boards all require active cooling for the chipset, which is an additional source of noise and point of failure. For my first build, I really wanted to go with cost efficient components. While it appears that the mentioned PSU actually had only 1x 8-pin EATX12V connector for their version prior to 2018, I checked my PSU shortlist against what you just taught me, and I can now confirm with you that most of the modern PSUs actually do come with the very same split that you pointed out Keith. (1) 8-pin EATX12V Is ATX12V a connector standard evolution of the EPS12V connector? I saw these names interchangeably in various manuals and wondered whether they are the same or compatible. | |
ID: 55874 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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it won't hurt anything to plug it in if you have it. if you don't have the extra connector, don't worry about it, you don't need to replace the PSU just for that connector. | |
ID: 55875 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Is ATX12V a connector standard evolution of the EPS12V connector? I saw these names interchangeably in various manuals and wondered whether they are the same or compatible. They are used interchangeably but actually have different origins. The EPS12V standard came out of the Server Standard Infrastructure group. It has a 24-pin ATX motherboard connector (same as ATX12V v2.x), an 8-pin secondary connector and an optional 4-pin tertiary connector. Rather than include the extra cable, many power supply makers implement the 8-pin connector as two combinable 4-pin connectors to ensure backwards compatibility with ATX12V motherboards. The ATX12V standard came out of the ATX group. Most common PC's and motherboards are built to ATX standards so they should get coupled with ATX power supplies. Read through the power supply section of the ATX wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#ATX_power_supply_revisions And there is an upcoming transition called ATX12VO that removes all of the voltages except for 12V from the motherboard main connector and replaces the 24 pin connector with a 10 pin one. | |
ID: 55877 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Very enlightening! Thanks, even though I feel a bit stupid now as I had the very same article opened this morning ... Old habit to search the wiki article in German first even though the English versions tend to be much better organized. Thanks again for the short 101 of PSU connectors :) | |
ID: 55878 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm interested in what changes the new ATX12VO standard is going to cause in the industry. A lot more motherboard real estate is going to be used up by 12V DC-DC inverters to create the +5 and +3.3V needed for SATA storage devices. Also the SATA power connectors will have to move off the power supply and onto the motherboard. | |
ID: 55879 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Sorry for diverting attention once again away from the recent discussion. Currently I am very confused as to what PSU characteristics are required... bozz4science,You're welcome. Every question regarding hardware is on topic here. And this has lead me to learn new subjects thanks to Ian&Steve C. and Keith Myers kind clarifications. On the practical side: it won't hurt anything to plug it in if you have it. if you don't have the extra connector, don't worry about it, you don't need to replace the PSU just for that connector. +1 I've been running this triple GPU system for months without any problem. It is Host #480458 at GPUGrid. Motherboard is a Gigabyte Z390 UD for LGA1151 processors, and it has three PCI express slots for graphics cards. Motherboard's extra four pins supply connector is left free, due to 750 Watts PSU hasn't connection available to match it. All three graphics cards are based on GTX 1650 GPU. This way, there isn't any problem when restarting GPUGrid tasks between them. Two of the cards are getting their power directly from PCIE slots (cards 2 and 3). Their rated TDP is 75 Watts each one. And I chose a model for card number 1 with an extra PCIE 6 pin power connector, for not stressing motherboard supply too much. This last card is a factory overclocked model, with a rated TDP increased to 85 Watts. | |
ID: 55880 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I've been running this triple GPU system for months without any problem. It is Host #480458 at GPUGrid. I thought I solved the issue of the extra 4-pin CPU power input by using a 4 to 2x4 pin splitter adaptor. I guess it probably was a waste of time and money powering a 65W i5-10400 but MSI stated that all the CPU power plugs must be connected when I couldn't get it to boot. Turns out Keith Myers nailed the problem as bent processor pins. This thread is awesome (grosso) for us, ServicEnginIC. Thanks again. | |
ID: 55881 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I've been running this triple GPU system for months without any problem. It is Host #480458 at GPUGrid. I thought I solved the issue of the extra 4-pin CPU power input by using a 4 to 2x4 pin splitter adaptor. I guess it probably was a waste of time and money powering a 65W i5-10400 but MSI stated that all the CPU power plugs must be connected when I couldn't get it to boot. Turns out Keith Myers nailed the problem as bent processor pins. This thread is awesome (grosso) for us, ServicEnginIC. Thanks again. | |
ID: 55882 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Wow, a double posting! How'd I rate that? | |
ID: 55883 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Taken from the manual of recently mentioned Z390 UD motherboard: | |
ID: 55884 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I guess it probably was a waste of time and money powering a 65W i5-10400 but MSI stated that all the CPU power plugs must be connected when I couldn't get it to boot. Turns out Keith Myers nailed the problem as bent processor pinsYou have found the reason of your system's boot failure, and the way you've fixed it tells that it has nothing to do with the number of power connectors, yet you conclude that you don't need the extra 4-pin power connector. The real reason of this incorrect conclusion is that Intel made you think that your i5-10400 consumes 65W, while in real life it consumes about 50% more of that when you actually use it. You can check the actual power consumption with CoreTemp (or similar tools). Originally (in electronics) TDP stands for Total Dissipated Power, which is a real life measure of the sum of the power dissipation of all components at full load. This is used for the design of the cooling solution to make critical components stay under their maximum allowed working temperature. Intel changed the definition of TDP: Thermal Design Power, which may look the same, but listen carefully every word of their definition: What is Thermal Design Power (TDP)?Have you noticed the word "theoretical"? I assure you, that real world workloads (like crunching) are way beyond that, therefore you should not design the CPU power lines and cooling of cruncher PCs by their TDP figures. They are giving a quite polite hint of it: What is the maximum power consumption for my processor?The final blow on their definition of TDP is revealed when you click on the TDP text or the question mark next to it on any processor's product specification page (for example the i5-10400) TDPThis definition is slightly different than the previous one, but sums the previous two quoutes: The main point is that the i5-10400 has a TDP of 65W on 2.9GHz, all cores active, while they advertise it as a 4.3GHz CPU, which actually is, but its TDP is much higher than 65W on 4.3GHz. This is true for all Intel processors which have a "base frequency" and a "turbo frequency". Intel never disclose the TDP of their processors at "turbo frequency", but they advertise them as being that ("turbo frequency") fast. This is a questionable way of making their processors more appealing. | |
ID: 55885 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thanks much Zoltan, yes, when I look at the MSI Afterburner hardware monitor it shows that when running around 90% capacity, my 10-400 consumes close to 70 watts so I sure won't call the extra power plug on this z-490 board unnecessary. I hope that splitting one of the power leads into two plugs doesn't cause me problems down the road. I should have upgraded to a semi-modular PSU. The current one is a EVGA 750W White model. | |
ID: 55886 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thank you too, ServicEnginIC. I don't recall if MSI was that detailed or not with their instruction. I admit I probably glanced at the directions and then went about slapping it in with a total lack of attention. | |
ID: 55887 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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But the extra 4-pin IS unnecessary if you’re already using an 8-pin. The 8-pin alone can supply over 200W. Your 70W chip isn’t stressing it at all. | |
ID: 55888 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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