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Message 13411 - Posted: 8 Nov 2009 | 18:22:10 UTC

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.

gdf

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Message 13414 - Posted: 8 Nov 2009 | 19:13:49 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

..... Done. Looking forward to some WUs.

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Message 13415 - Posted: 8 Nov 2009 | 19:59:25 UTC

I'll try a few too ...

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Message 13416 - Posted: 8 Nov 2009 | 21:05:09 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.

gdf


what about a 2600 xt?

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Message 13421 - Posted: 9 Nov 2009 | 10:33:19 UTC

Well i've got 1 machine with a HD4850.
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Message 13423 - Posted: 9 Nov 2009 | 12:04:57 UTC - in response to Message 13421.

It could be fine as well.
gdf

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Message 13424 - Posted: 9 Nov 2009 | 14:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 13423.
Last modified: 9 Nov 2009 | 15:34:52 UTC

It could be fine as well.
gdf

k, project added to ati gpu computer..

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Message 13434 - Posted: 9 Nov 2009 | 22:59:28 UTC

no, only 4000 series and up will run opencl. nvidia 8 series and higher will too.

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Message 13435 - Posted: 9 Nov 2009 | 23:27:17 UTC - in response to Message 13434.
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 0:12:50 UTC

hi,
AMD does not want us to distribute any DLL at the moment, so you must install it yourself. Sorry about that.
YOU NEED:
1) ATI-opencl-beta driver
2) ATI-opencl-sdk stream SDK
from
here

The minimum card is a Radeon 4850. Below this one shared memory is emulated so it is terribly slow.

WU submitted will be very short just for us to get some data.

gdf

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Message 13438 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 2:22:19 UTC - in response to Message 13435.
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 3:06:09 UTC

The minimum card is a Radeon 4850. Below this one shared memory is emulated so it is terribly slow.

As OpenCL requires the shared memory (local address space in OpenCL) to offer general read write access, only the HD5000 line will natively support this. At least that is the official information. Actually it is a bit strange as the HD4000 shared memory supports different addressing modes and should be usable in several scenarios without the need to emulate it with (slow) global memory (DX11 Compute allows the use of shared memory also with SM4.1 GPUs like the HD4000 series for example).

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Message 13439 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 4:35:14 UTC - in response to Message 13435.

hi,
AMD does not want us to distribute any DLL at the moment, so you must install it yourself. Sorry about that.
YOU NEED:
1) ATI-opencl-beta driver
2) ATI-opencl-sdk stream SDK
from
here

The minimum card is a Radeon 4850. Below this one shared memory is emulated so it is terribly slow.

WU submitted will be very short just for us to get some data.

gdf


You have to have an AMD account to download those.
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Message 13440 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 4:57:40 UTC

I am getting:

No work sent
Your computer has no Nvidia GPU

(obviously)

This is with BOINC 6.10.18
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Message 13442 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 8:37:50 UTC - in response to Message 13440.

Yes,
you need to create an account, but it is very quick.

We will only create a Windows application for now. Workunits will come in today.

gdf

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Message 13443 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 10:19:12 UTC - in response to Message 13439.

I'm a bit confused, if I install these BETA Driver Files with the Installer which are different than the ATI Drivers I already have installed can I still run Collatz or Milkyway with the Drivers. ???








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Message 13444 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 10:57:01 UTC - in response to Message 13443.

I have no idea. The driver should not affect it as it is newer, however the only way is to try. If you don't want to stop production for beta work don't change it.

You also need a new client: 6.10.17

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Message 13445 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 10:57:49 UTC - in response to Message 13444.

There are 5 workunits out to be grabbed.
gdf

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Message 13447 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 11:33:24 UTC
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 11:53:58 UTC

Do we really need to install the 2) ATI-opencl-sdk stream SDK as it's just a Developer ???

11/10/2009 6:50:08 AM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
11/10/2009 6:50:08 AM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for CPU and GPU
11/10/2009 6:50:13 AM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/10/2009 6:50:13 AM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
11/10/2009 6:50:13 AM GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU
11/10/2009 6:50:44 AM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
11/10/2009 6:50:44 AM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for GPU
11/10/2009 6:50:49 AM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/10/2009 6:50:49 AM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent

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Message 13448 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 12:15:13 UTC - in response to Message 13445.

I attached a system with an ATI HD4850 to GPUGRID. Boinv Version 6.10.18.
I registered with AMD, downloaded and installed the OpenCL_Beta and OpenCL_sdk programs and restarted.
I did not pick up any GPUGRID Beta tasks.
Boinc keeps saying no NVIDIA GPU's.
The phrase, all work and no play makes Johny a dull boy, springs to mind!

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Message 13449 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 12:33:34 UTC

SKG, I wouldn't expect a lot of work to begin with, their just feeling the ATI Cards out is all I think ...

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Message 13450 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 12:47:13 UTC - in response to Message 13443.

I'm a bit confused, if I install these BETA Driver Files with the Installer which are different than the ATI Drivers I already have installed can I still run Collatz or Milkyway with the Drivers. ???

On Vista and Win7 yes, with WinXP Collatz will run. MW will likely still be influenced by the same WinXP driver issue introduced half a year ago (but not tested).

The problem is that it is still in beta stage (and expires sometimes in january). The OpenCL compatibility should be integrated to the normal driver release hopefully with Cat 9.12 or 10.1.

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Message 13451 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 12:57:19 UTC
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 13:08:19 UTC

I'm running the Collatz Wu's on my i7 with Win XP 64-bit & the New Beta Drivers, they were released 10-8-09 (CAT 9.11 & CAL Version 1.4.467) CAT 9.10 is CAL Version 1.4.368 ... Haven't received any Wu's yet though for the 5870 Cards in the Box.

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Message 13452 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 14:08:06 UTC - in response to Message 13451.
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 14:14:10 UTC

Drivers and SDK are required.
I am checking on the scheduler log why they are not sent.


Are you accepting beta work?

gdf

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Message 13455 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 14:36:58 UTC - in response to Message 13452.

We managed to try on a 4850 and shared memory is still emulated, so the card seems to be quite slow.

It is likely that the only cards where ATI put a good hardware support for shared memory are the new 5000 cards.

Still trying to solve problems with the scheduler which does not want to send out wus with plan class ati14...

009-11-09 19:44:47.4798 [PID=13546] [send] effective_ncpus 4 max_jobs_on_host_cpu 4 max_jobs_on_host 4
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4798 [PID=13546] [send] effective_ngpus 0 max_jobs_on_host_gpu 0
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4798 [PID=13546] [send] Not using matchmaker scheduling; Not using EDF sim
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4798 [PID=13546] [send] CPU: req 0.00 sec, 0.00 instances; est delay 0.00
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4798 [PID=13546] [send] ATI: req 240887.55 sec, 0.00 instances; est delay 0.00
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4799 [PID=13546] [send] work_req_seconds: 0.00 secs
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4799 [PID=13546] [send] available disk 4.80 GB, work_buf_min 0
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4799 [PID=13546] [send] active_frac 0.999912 on_frac 0.998079 DCF 8.012970
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4799 [PID=13546] [send] [HOST#XXXXXX] is reliable
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4800 [PID=13546] [send] set_trust: random choice for error rate 0.000010: yes
2009-11-09 19:44:47.4800 [PID=13546] [send] don't need more work

I have asked Anderson what don't need more work means...
gdf

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Message 13456 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 14:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 13452.

Drivers and SDK are required.
I am checking on the scheduler log why they are not sent.


Are you accepting beta work?

gdf


Yes I'm accepting BETA Work from GPU Grid, I have the the Drivers & SDK both installed too on THIS BOX ...

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Message 13459 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 20:16:18 UTC - in response to Message 13456.
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 20:55:10 UTC

I have performed a server update to see if things change.
Can you ask/receive for work?
gdf

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Message 13460 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 20:26:00 UTC

I can ask for work but don't get any work:

11/10/2009 3:24:16 PM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
11/10/2009 3:24:16 PM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for CPU and GPU
11/10/2009 3:24:21 PM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/10/2009 3:24:21 PM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
11/10/2009 3:24:21 PM GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU

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Message 13461 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 21:58:15 UTC - in response to Message 13460.

humm, one host got one task now.

gdf

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Message 13462 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 22:01:30 UTC - in response to Message 13460.

You must be logged in to download tools from AMD Developer Central
< this was my stop.

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Message 13464 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 22:25:33 UTC - in response to Message 13462.
Last modified: 10 Nov 2009 | 23:13:07 UTC

I know it is annoying to log on, but it is quick at least.

For now, it is like this. It is not a problem in the sense that we are just testing, but of course it cannot go on for long.

gdf

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Message 13465 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 22:26:21 UTC - in response to Message 13464.

TO: poorboy

Anderson just fixed the server. Recompiling now.

gdf

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Message 13466 - Posted: 10 Nov 2009 | 23:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 13461.

humm, one host got one task now.

gdf


I had to stop Collatz to get the 4 GPUGrid Wu's to run but they only ran about 2 Seconds before Erring out. They also locked up the System for a little while after erring out but it cleared itself and started running again without re-booting ...

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Message 13468 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 0:23:06 UTC

4870x2, got both packages from ATI as instructed!

Sample demo kits provided by ATI were running with no problems!

http://www.gpugrid.net/workunit.php?wuid=930617

Myself and my wingman are erroring!

Good jump start up anyway! I'd really like to come back here after a year of absence after frying my GTX 280 here! :)

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Message 13475 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 8:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 13468.

So, at least the server now works.
We are looking into it for the application.

gdf

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Message 13476 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 8:35:56 UTC - in response to Message 13475.

We have tested on Windows XP and Windows Vista. Where are you running?

gdf

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Message 13479 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 10:12:30 UTC - in response to Message 13476.

We have tested on Windows XP and Windows Vista. Where are you running?

gdf


windows 7.

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Message 13480 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 10:15:25 UTC

I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2 64-Bit, It's the only System I running on my Pharm so I have no other System to Test on ...

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Message 13481 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 10:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 13480.

I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2 64-Bit, It's the only System I running on my Pharm so I have no other System to Test on ...


Looks like only one wingman made it through and validated, whoever that is!

http://www.gpugrid.net/show_host_detail.php?hostid=56045

http://www.gpugrid.net/workunit.php?wuid=930617

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Message 13483 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 10:39:42 UTC - in response to Message 13481.

He has XP32 which is what we have tested.
Maybe there is a problem for 64bit.

gdf

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Message 13484 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 11:13:22 UTC - in response to Message 13483.

the 32bit app crashed on my 64bit Win7 too....

Could you build a 64bit Windows App (because 32bit Windows is "dying") or ask Gipsel, he could do this ...

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Message 13486 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 12:28:40 UTC - in response to Message 13483.

He has XP32 which is what we have tested.
Maybe there is a problem for 64bit.

gdf


Why would a 64-Bit OS be a problem if the Video Cards is doing the Work ??? Or does the CPU share duties with the Video Card running the ATI Wu's ???

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Message 13488 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 13:50:11 UTC - in response to Message 13486.

He has XP32 which is what we have tested.
Maybe there is a problem for 64bit.

gdf


Why would a 64-Bit OS be a problem if the Video Cards is doing the Work ??? Or does the CPU share duties with the Video Card running the ATI Wu's ???

The 32bit application is linked against the 32bit libraries and the 32bit opencl.dll. And you can't install the 32bit OpenCL SDK on a 64bit system, so I think the 32bit version of this dll is simply missing. I hope they will fix it when it gets a normal part of the graphics driver (the 64bit driver contains 32bit as well as 64 bit version of the CAL libraries for example).

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Message 13489 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 14:30:10 UTC
Last modified: 11 Nov 2009 | 14:31:49 UTC

It seems to be working with my XP64 machine, with a 4870.

http://www.gpugrid.net/show_host_detail.php?hostid=55930

Edit: The two tasks returned so far validated okay. But just FYI, this is showing in the sdterr out:

MDIO ERROR: cannot open file "restart.coor"
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Message 13490 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 15:28:30 UTC - in response to Message 13489.

But just FYI, this is showing in the sdterr out:

MDIO ERROR: cannot open file "restart.coor"

I think it just means that there was no checkpoint found.

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Message 13491 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 16:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 13490.

zombie:
what sdk/driver did you install the 32 bit or the 64 bit.

I am going to send out other 10 WUs to try again. No changes on the application.

gdf

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Message 13492 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 16:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 13488.

He has XP32 which is what we have tested.
Maybe there is a problem for 64bit.

gdf


Why would a 64-Bit OS be a problem if the Video Cards is doing the Work ??? Or does the CPU share duties with the Video Card running the ATI Wu's ???

The 32bit application is linked against the 32bit libraries and the 32bit opencl.dll. And you can't install the 32bit OpenCL SDK on a 64bit system, so I think the 32bit version of this dll is simply missing. I hope they will fix it when it gets a normal part of the graphics driver (the 64bit driver contains 32bit as well as 64 bit version of the CAL libraries for example).


my windows 7 is 32 bit!

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Message 13494 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 17:31:43 UTC - in response to Message 13491.
Last modified: 11 Nov 2009 | 17:38:06 UTC

zombie:
what sdk/driver did you install the 32 bit or the 64 bit.

I am going to send out other 10 WUs to try again. No changes on the application.

gdf



The SDK is 64 bit. I can't tell from the Driver name if it is 32 or 64.

The site is currently down, so I can't double check.

Why? Did it not crunch properly?

Edit: FYI, two more tasks completed and validated. 4 of 4 now.
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Message 13497 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 18:43:49 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.
In editing GPUGRID preferences, there is twice Use Central Processing Unit (CPU).
It's a bit confising at least.

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Message 13499 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 19:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 13497.

More WUs out.
PoorBoy. Can you try to reinstall the SDK?
GDF

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Message 13500 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 19:35:10 UTC - in response to Message 13499.
Last modified: 11 Nov 2009 | 20:03:50 UTC

More WUs out.
PoorBoy. Can you try to reinstall the SDK?
GDF


I just noticed I have 5 or 6 Wu's on my i7 Box that haven't run yet. All I have is the 64 Bit SDK but I'll reinstall it before running them ...

PS: All 6 Wu ran just a few Seconds & still gave a Computation Error ... HERE

I uninstalled the 64-bit SDK Version and installed the 32-Bit SDK Version, if I get some more Wu's I'll try them with the 32-Bit SDK Version ...

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Message 13501 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 20:10:26 UTC

Hi,

I just set everything up (beta driver and SDK). After attaching to the project I got 2 tasks which both resulted in a VPU recover - hadn't seen one of these in quite a while :(

Link to my host (Radeon 4870 1GB Windows 7 x64)

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Message 13502 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 20:37:44 UTC - in response to Message 13501.

I get calc errors too :(

http://www.gpugrid.net/show_host_detail.php?hostid=40433

max

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Message 13503 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 23:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 13494.

Edit: FYI, two more tasks completed and validated. 4 of 4 now.


10 for 10 now. All valid and credit granted.
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Message 13504 - Posted: 11 Nov 2009 | 23:45:13 UTC
Last modified: 11 Nov 2009 | 23:46:11 UTC

Hi,
some info I forgot to include in my previous post.

The 2 WUs didn't crash right at start. They were running a few seconds (elapsed time was counting up) before the display became frozen. After about 10 seconds the driver was automatically reset (with notification in systray) and the tasks had errored out.

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Message 13505 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 0:29:17 UTC - in response to Message 13504.

Hi,
some info I forgot to include in my previous post.

The 2 WUs didn't crash right at start. They were running a few seconds (elapsed time was counting up) before the display became frozen. After about 10 seconds the driver was automatically reset (with notification in systray) and the tasks had errored out.


That's almost the exact same thing that happens when I try to run them on my 5870's & 64-Bit Windows OS ...

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Message 13506 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 0:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 13503.

Edit: FYI, two more tasks completed and validated. 4 of 4 now.


10 for 10 now. All valid and credit granted.


Quit Gloating ... :P ... ;)

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Message 13507 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 0:43:59 UTC

I'm 1/1 although 5 wingmen had 'error while computing- http://www.gpugrid.net/workunit.php?wuid=930617

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Message 13508 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 0:50:16 UTC

Could just be the 48xx Cards will run them & the 58xx Cards won't, I don't have a whole lot of success running the Milkyway Wu's either with my 5870 Cards. For that matter the last time I tried a week or so ago my 4870 Cards didn't have much success running the Milkyway Wu's either. Lot's of VPU errors across the Pharm trying to run them.

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Message 13510 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 6:44:31 UTC - in response to Message 13508.

I carely reinstalled the drivers and the SDK on this pc

http://www.gpugrid.net/show_host_detail.php?hostid=40433

The task starts few seconds,then freeze and then give the calc error, no driver errors.
I got AQUA running on the CPU.

My system is very stable with MW and Collatz,never got any error.

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Message 13511 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 6:50:22 UTC
Last modified: 12 Nov 2009 | 6:53:50 UTC

Hi, first of all, i have to say, that i'm happy about the progress of adding Ati to GPUGRID. I just read about it and did install all the stuff from the AMD-Homepage. But everytime i'm crunching get an error. Looking in the task shows this:

<core_client_version>6.10.18</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -40 (0xffffffd8)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
LR
SWAN OCL: FATAL : Error at ../swan/swanlib_ocl.cpp:145 : -11

</stderr_txt>
]]>

Maybe someone can tell me what to do to fix it?...

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Message 13516 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 13:51:05 UTC
Last modified: 12 Nov 2009 | 14:03:32 UTC

Ok, I'm in! I just received a 5850 yesterday, and managed to find another one yesterday--which I promptly ordered....it will be here early next week. ;)

So, help a flunky out here please. I DLed and installed:

ati-opencl-beta-driver-v2.0-beta4-vista-win7.zip (129MB)

It's showing in Device Manager as: Driver Version: 8.671.0.0 10/26/09...Is that correct?

I DLed ati-stream-sdk-v2.0-beta4-vista-win7-64.exe (59.3MB). When I double click it...it wants to unzip to: C\...\....\AppData\Local\Temp, so I let it go there....is that correct?

Also, the DLs are for Vista SP1....as far as I know, that rig is SP2....is that going to be a problem?

Very Happy about this....!!! ;)

---------------------------------
I detached and re-attached and it keeps saying "Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU". :(

---------------------------------
Detached again. Shutdown Boinc completely. Restarted it. Re-attached to GpuGrid, and this is the deal:


11/12/2009 8:58:28 AM Fetching configuration file from http://www.gpugrid.net/get_project_config.php
11/12/2009 8:58:43 AM GPUGRID Master file download succeeded
11/12/2009 8:58:48 AM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: Project initialization.
11/12/2009 8:58:48 AM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for CPU and GPU
11/12/2009 8:58:53 AM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/12/2009 8:58:53 AM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
11/12/2009 8:58:53 AM GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU
11/12/2009 8:58:55 AM GPUGRID Started download of logops3grid.png
11/12/2009 8:58:55 AM GPUGRID Started download of project_1.png
11/12/2009 8:58:56 AM GPUGRID Finished download of logops3grid.png
11/12/2009 8:58:56 AM GPUGRID Started download of project_2.png
11/12/2009 8:58:57 AM GPUGRID Finished download of project_1.png
11/12/2009 8:58:57 AM GPUGRID Started download of project_3.png
11/12/2009 8:58:59 AM GPUGRID Finished download of project_2.png
11/12/2009 8:59:00 AM GPUGRID Finished download of project_3.png
11/12/2009 8:59:29 AM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
11/12/2009 8:59:29 AM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for GPU
11/12/2009 8:59:34 AM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/12/2009 8:59:34 AM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
11/12/2009 8:59:34 AM GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU
11/12/2009 9:00:09 AM GPUGRID Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
11/12/2009 9:00:09 AM GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for GPU
11/12/2009 9:00:14 AM GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
11/12/2009 9:00:14 AM GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
11/12/2009 9:00:14 AM GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU

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Message 13517 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 14:07:51 UTC - in response to Message 13516.


I DLed ati-stream-sdk-v2.0-beta4-vista-win7-64.exe (59.3MB). When I double click it...it wants to unzip to: C\...\....\AppData\Local\Temp, so I let it go there....is that correct?


It unzips two separate installers to the directory you specified (one file is the SDK the other one contains sample code).
After they're unzipped you still need to install the SDK from this directory (you probably can skip the samples).

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Message 13518 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 14:30:31 UTC - in response to Message 13517.

So far:
Any of the 4xxx cards proved to be very very slow. It is unlikely that we will support them due to lack of proper shared memory. For 5xxx, we still could not test because we don't have any, AMD does not send us any and the ones attached do not run at the moment.

We will see in the following days if we can get the performance of a 5xxx card.

gdf

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Message 13519 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 14:58:15 UTC - in response to Message 13518.
Last modified: 12 Nov 2009 | 15:09:38 UTC


I DLed ati-stream-sdk-v2.0-beta4-vista-win7-64.exe (59.3MB). When I double click it...it wants to unzip to: C\...\....\AppData\Local\Temp, so I let it go there....is that correct?


It unzips two separate installers to the directory you specified (one file is the SDK the other one contains sample code).
After they're unzipped you still need to install the SDK from this directory (you probably can skip the samples).



Ok, Thank You, but still the same thing. I installed both files from the temp directory and rebooted. Detached, shutdown boinc, re-attached....no dice. :(




So far:
Any of the 4xxx cards proved to be very very slow. It is unlikely that we will support them due to lack of proper shared memory. For 5xxx, we still could not test because we don't have any, AMD does not send us any and the ones attached do not run at the moment.

We will see in the following days if we can get the performance of a 5xxx card.

gdf



Well, these card(s) will be pounding collatz for now, but just let me know what You need. I've been with GpuGrid for quite a while....was hoping the ATI day would come! ;) I'll keep an eye on this thread, but feel free to send a PM or email...



Also wanted to give a personal Thanx! to Gispel! GpuGrid is a great project and I was hoping you would find your way here!!

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Message 13520 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 17:07:19 UTC - in response to Message 13519.

If OpenCL is a/the problem - dont use it - maybe this project could use CAL&Brook like the other projects too (Collatz, Milkyway)

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Message 13521 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 17:47:27 UTC

Just had 7 Error out on a Dual 4850 X2 Box ... :(

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Message 13522 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 18:19:37 UTC - in response to Message 13519.
Last modified: 12 Nov 2009 | 18:23:47 UTC

Also wanted to give a personal Thanx! to Gispel! GpuGrid is a great project and I was hoping you would find your way here!!

But I have nothing contributed here. The credit has to go to GDF and his team for porting the CUDA application to OpenCL.

Unfortunately the shared memory of the HD4000 line gets no support from OpenCL (so it is really slow, only HD5000 line is properly supported). I guess porting it to yet another platform may be a little bit too much effort to ask for. OpenCL and CUDA share a lot of similarities, so it is comparatively easy port. Other platforms have a slightly different philosophy, which would need a lot more effort to support.

I could imagine the project would really like to see the OpenCL environments from both ATI and nvidia to mature fast (and to show similar performance characteristics to the CUDA version in case of nvidia, i.e. not slower). If that is the case in let's say a few month from now, it may be beneficial to maintain only the OpenCL version which would be supported by all platforms (nvidia, ATI, CPUs, and possibly also Cell for PS3). But one has to see first how this whole OpenCL thing develops before declaring this as a goal.

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Message 13523 - Posted: 12 Nov 2009 | 18:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 13522.
Last modified: 12 Nov 2009 | 18:35:19 UTC

a nice hello for all here ;-)

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Message 13529 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 6:10:32 UTC - in response to Message 13522.

Also wanted to give a personal Thanx! to Gispel! GpuGrid is a great project and I was hoping you would find your way here!!

But I have nothing contributed here. The credit has to go to GDF and his team for porting the CUDA application to OpenCL.



Absolutely agreed. The GpuGrid team has always worked very diligently to get and keep this project up and running. I've seen a number of positive comments over time from folks coming from other projects. Over time issues are a given...it's how they are handled that makes all the difference....

Maybe I've misunderstood something, but my understanding is that you are 1 of the keys to getting ATI going on MW and Collatz....I don't claim to understand CUDA and CAL and OpenGL and all that...;) But if my understanding is correct (on MW and Collatz)....you've still got a lot to offer here on this advancement.

And, Yes, Many Thanx to GDF et al! This project started on the edge and does a great job of staying there. Much Respect for the continued advancement of this technology!

----------------

Still just telling me that I don't have an Nvidia GPU :(

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Message 13531 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 9:29:03 UTC - in response to Message 13529.

Gipsel is welcome to help. In a sense is doing it already by writing on this forum. Unfortunately for us, he could not really help with the code as the code is accessed only by few people. Your experience on ATI and Nvidia will be very valuable for us.

GDF

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Message 13533 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 11:18:18 UTC - in response to Message 13520.
Last modified: 13 Nov 2009 | 11:22:23 UTC

If OpenCL is a/the problem - dont use it - maybe this project could use CAL&Brook like the other projects too (Collatz, Milkyway)


Unfortunately neither OpenCL, nor CAL/Brook+ have FFT libraries at the moment. Cuda does. The GPUgrid app uses FFT functions as does Seti and Einstein.

Gipsel feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know Collatz and Milkyway don't use FFT functions.

OpenCL offers the project code compatibility for the ATI and Nvidia cards, they just need to be compiled with the appropiate compiler. This is why the projects would like to move to using OpenCL.
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Message 13534 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 13:44:11 UTC - in response to Message 13533.

Is it possible to use a 3rd party FFT library?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gpufft/

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Message 13538 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 17:35:01 UTC - in response to Message 13534.
Last modified: 13 Nov 2009 | 18:34:16 UTC

FFT will not be a problem at first.
We have implemented an alternative algorithm which will be fine to run several types of WUs and we still have Nvidia for the WUs which require FFT.

gdf

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Message 13539 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 18:16:02 UTC

Well, I just picked up a 3rd 5850 via HF/XFX combo deal. Shipping today. So, by this time next week I will have 3x 5850s in hand.

I'm ready....

Let's DO this....;)

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Message 13540 - Posted: 13 Nov 2009 | 20:22:47 UTC
Last modified: 13 Nov 2009 | 20:24:51 UTC

I'm ready too but have set mt Box to NNW for now, unless there's something new to try I can't see spitting out just error's & having the Box Hang as a result of them. I'll keep an eye on the Thread and if something new is going to be tried I'll try & grab a few ... :)

PS: As a side note Subscribing to a Thread is Pointless for me as I never receive a Notice by E-Mail even though I have my Preferences set to do so ... ???

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Message 13542 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 9:31:50 UTC - in response to Message 13540.
Last modified: 14 Nov 2009 | 9:32:33 UTC

So, we are waiting to receive a 5870 which we ordered and in meanwhile cleaning up the code. But I think that most likely the ATI SDK is the problem (maybe a new release will help). We will also test under windows7 from now on, so to make windows 7 the recommended OS.

thanks for testing. Something more in a week or so.
gdf

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Message 13543 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 11:59:21 UTC - in response to Message 13542.
Last modified: 14 Nov 2009 | 12:01:15 UTC

So, we are waiting to receive a 5870 which we ordered and in meanwhile cleaning up the code. But I think that most likely the ATI SDK is the problem (maybe a new release will help). We will also test under windows7 from now on, so to make windows 7 the recommended OS.

thanks for testing. Something more in a week or so.
gdf



Sounds Good, GDF. I did have a question on the OS. I use mainly Vista x64, but I do currently have 2 rigs running Win7 RC. I'm not real happy with the win7 RC, maybe I just need to burn a new ISO, but whatever.

Do I need to try to find a cheap copy of Win7?

Also, some 5870s seem to have boot issues. Are you aware of this? If not, I'll try to relocate some links....

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Message 13544 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 12:25:51 UTC - in response to Message 13543.

No,
we know little about ATI cards and have never run Windows 7. Please provide all the links that we can.

The fact with Windows is that we practically don't use it, so it is quite long to test for different versions. Windows 7 is probably good for gaming and so for us as well.

I just went to the shop. We should have the 5870 by next week.

g

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Message 13545 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 12:32:28 UTC
Last modified: 14 Nov 2009 | 12:58:48 UTC

Ok, I understand. I'll have 3 cards in hand next week. Still looking to pick up a 4th. Then a WCing solution! Running short on cash....So, which version of Win7: HP, Pro? Not really looking to spend for Ultimate unless absolutely necessary. Checking out the "Family packs"....

I'll post back with some links. Not sure how big of an issue it really is...number of complaints. I've not had any issues with the 1 card that I have....

BTW, it seems that the issue effects the 5xxx series generally, not just 1 or 2 cards...


Here's a couple quick links:

5850 Boot Problem

5850 long boot time

Google is full of them, but it may be a lot of the same folks looking for answers wherever they can find them, plus whatever the issue is may have already been resolved by ATI in the new stock.


Looks like it may just be a bios issue on some MBs....Asus being one of them. Mine is installed on an Asus P5E-VM HDMI and I've had no issues...

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Message 13546 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 12:55:55 UTC

Also, some 5870s seem to have boot issues. Are you aware of this? If not, I'll try to relocate some links


I'm running 10 5870's of 3 different Brands in 5 Box's under Windows XP Pro SP2 64-Bit without any Boot Problems. I have 3 in my lone i7 that Boots up way faster than it ever did with the NVIDIA GTX 200 Series Video Cards it had in it before.

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Message 13547 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 13:03:48 UTC

Sounds good, so we're 11 for 11 atm...

Would you care to list MB brands/ models?

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Message 13548 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 15:47:12 UTC

I have 15 Box's, all have Quad Cores in them 6600 - 6700 - 9450 Variity & 1 i7 920 ... All the Box's have Gigabyte DQ6's of Various Models as they came out DQ6 - X38 DQ6's - and a X58 Extreme for the i7 ...

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Message 13551 - Posted: 14 Nov 2009 | 17:03:15 UTC
Last modified: 14 Nov 2009 | 17:03:49 UTC

Ok, well, this particular person determined their issue to be how they plugged up their psu:

Post #51

So, that's something to keep in mind...

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Message 13565 - Posted: 15 Nov 2009 | 19:48:17 UTC - in response to Message 13538.

FFT will not be a problem at first.
We have implemented an alternative algorithm which will be fine to run several types of WUs and we still have Nvidia for the WUs which require FFT.

gdf

how much work in the WU's is fft's? they run quite fast from what i have seen on ATi cards, like video transcoding. it almost seems like their architecture is designed for signal processing rather than graphics. i saw an AMD slideshow that had an optimized fft running at 300 GFLOPs on a 4870. thats with LDS too.

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Message 13566 - Posted: 15 Nov 2009 | 20:07:50 UTC - in response to Message 13565.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2009 | 20:08:09 UTC

The ffts take something like 20% of the time, but they are many short FFTs.
I am not sure if there are FFTs libs for ATI which can run with the openCL environment. Maybe Gipsel can tell us something.

gdf

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Message 13574 - Posted: 16 Nov 2009 | 11:01:04 UTC - in response to Message 13566.

The ffts take something like 20% of the time, but they are many short FFTs.
I am not sure if there are FFTs libs for ATI which can run with the openCL environment. Maybe Gipsel can tell us something.

gdf

maybe you could find something interesting going on here
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=102635

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Message 13615 - Posted: 19 Nov 2009 | 11:51:55 UTC - in response to Message 13574.

We are still waiting for the 5870 to come. Sorry for the delay.

gdf

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Message 13617 - Posted: 19 Nov 2009 | 13:28:15 UTC - in response to Message 13615.

We are still waiting for the 5870 to come. Sorry for the delay.

gdf



Sounds Goods. For me, everything is in house and operational, except Win7. It should be here Tues, then it's time to wipe some HDs and see about the clean installs from the upgrade disk....

In the mean time, with MW being down, it looks like we're going to melt the Collatz server to the floor.....LMAO ;)

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Message 13618 - Posted: 19 Nov 2009 | 14:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 13615.
Last modified: 19 Nov 2009 | 14:52:32 UTC

We are still waiting for the 5870 to come. Sorry for the delay.

gdf


I'll send 1 of mine if it will help you, PM me if you want to go that way, of course you would have to send it back ... I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ??? Hopefully this Project can keep them busier than the other 2 Projects can ...

PS: Right now the 5870's & 5850's are now where to be had, and with the release of the 5970 the 5850's will even be harder to come by ... IMO

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Message 13637 - Posted: 21 Nov 2009 | 12:42:03 UTC

But there are WU for ATI?
I updated beta drivers + OpenCL as requested, I checked in the project options to accept WU beta, but does not download anything and the server continues to give me the error that I have an NVIDIA GPU.
I forgot something?

Excuse my English but I used the google translator to write my message from my mother tongue is Italian.

Thank you all for your reply.

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Message 13638 - Posted: 21 Nov 2009 | 17:16:32 UTC
Last modified: 21 Nov 2009 | 17:29:08 UTC

I updated beta drivers + OpenCL SDK as requested

Starting BOINC client version 6.10.19 for windows_x86_64
ATI GPU 0: ATI Radeon HD5700 series (Juniper) (CAL version 1.4.467, 1024MB, 1360 GFLOPS peak)
OS: Microsoft Windows 7: Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Message from server: No work sent
Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU
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Message 13647 - Posted: 22 Nov 2009 | 8:43:03 UTC

@GDF
I use my 5870 under Win7 X64 since early October, running Collatz and MilkyWay. If you need somebody more to test your ATI version just let me know.

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Message 13651 - Posted: 22 Nov 2009 | 15:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 13618.

poorboy

...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home

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Message 13652 - Posted: 22 Nov 2009 | 16:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 13651.

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home




If that's true--I would like to know. My understanding is that everyone is waiting on the release of GPU3. ???

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Message 13655 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 2:12:46 UTC - in response to Message 13651.

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home



I only run the BOINC Projects, they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...

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Message 13657 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 5:09:39 UTC - in response to Message 13652.

There is a client for ATI F@H but it currently does not produce as well as Nvidia cards do.

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Message 13663 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 15:36:00 UTC - in response to Message 13657.

For me Folding@home is better than doing nothing, but that is my preference and your quite intitled to yours.

I dont know much about the Folding@home's productivity, performance or program, but I do know that it works on many ATI and NVIDIA cards. It is a very well supported project (1.3 million cards have been attached at some time or other) even if you think it is not as relatively productive as GPUGRID.

I have hooked up some Nvidia cards in the past and the one big ATI card (4850) runs it most of the time. My Nvidia cards now all work for GPUGrid. I know from experience that the Nvidia cards cannot work on folding@home and on GPUGrid, and it’s the GPUGrid tasks that crash (usually time out).

From what I gather, the newer ATI cards will eventually be brought on board here, but it does not look like that will include my HD 4850. Perhaps next year there will be tasks for ATI 5800 series cards here on GPUGrid. Presently GPUGrid is in an, all your eggs in the one basket, situation. Given that production of top end NVidia cards has stopped, bringing in ATI support is a good thing. Who knows what the future of NVidia is WRT top end cards – 5850 and 5870 cards are here but there is no G300 yet. The rains might have come every year for the last 5, but that does not mean they will come next year!

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Message 13669 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 21:19:20 UTC - in response to Message 13663.

Given that production of top end NVidia cards has stopped, bringing in ATI support is a good thing.


Such fundamental software design decisions shouldn't be based on temporary circumstances such as yield and capacity problems at a foundry. Give it a couple of months and Fermi will be here (just not that many). And it will be one large, expensive power hungry performance beast. But there'll also be its smaller siblings with more sane transistor counts.

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Message 13670 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 22:19:06 UTC - in response to Message 13655.

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home



I only run the BOINC Projects, they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Collatz & Milkyway are both up and running. I keep looking her for a ATI app, but it don't look like you will be supporting my 4850 at this time.

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Message 13671 - Posted: 23 Nov 2009 | 22:33:20 UTC - in response to Message 13670.

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home



I only run the BOINC Projects, they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Collatz & Milkyway are both up and running. I keep looking her for a ATI app, but it don't look like you will be supporting my 4850 at this time.

I was hoping to get a 3rd ATI project for my HD4850 as well. :-)
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Message 13675 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 5:11:22 UTC - in response to Message 13671.

from what we have seen the performance on the HD4xxx series is very very slow.
So it is runs but very slow. The ATI openCL emulates the shared memory via global memory. At this point they are so slow that it is likely that we will restrict to HD5xxx cards.

gdf

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Message 13676 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 7:29:02 UTC - in response to Message 13566.

The ffts take something like 20% of the time, but they are many short FFTs.
I am not sure if there are FFTs libs for ATI which can run with the openCL environment. Maybe Gipsel can tell us something.

gdf


https://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/OpenCL_FFT/index.html

here it is source code for a fairly complete library for FFT (made by Apple, but should be easily ported). Don't know about the license, could it be without any?

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Message 13682 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 13:30:59 UTC - in response to Message 13675.

from what we have seen the performance on the HD4xxx series is very very slow.
So it is runs but very slow. The ATI openCL emulates the shared memory via global memory. At this point they are so slow that it is likely that we will restrict to HD5xxx cards.

gdf

Hm, if a HD48590 is really considered as VERY SLOW I maybe should completely forget about crunching.... :-(
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Message 13684 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 17:21:18 UTC - in response to Message 13682.

To quantify GDF's remark about the speed of 48xx cards, we currently find that a 4850 runs our code about as fast as an NVidia 8600. This is almost entirely down to the lack of local shared memory and we have every reason to expect that the 5xxx cards, which have shared memory on the processor itself, will be significantly faster. We're still waiting for the postman, though!

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Message 13685 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 17:26:49 UTC - in response to Message 13676.

https://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/OpenCL_FFT/index.html


Thanks for the link, cenit. There are several FFT OpenCL projects we're watching - hopefully one will have all the features we need soon (In case you are wondering, these are: batched 1D r2c and c2r transforms with an FFTW-like interface and data-layout). Alas, we don't have the resources to develop one in-house at the moment.

MJH

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Message 13689 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 20:53:04 UTC - in response to Message 13682.

from what we have seen the performance on the HD4xxx series is very very slow.
So it is runs but very slow. The ATI openCL emulates the shared memory via global memory. At this point they are so slow that it is likely that we will restrict to HD5xxx cards.

gdf

Hm, if a HD48590 is really considered as VERY SLOW I maybe should completely forget about crunching.... :-(

Or run out and buy 5xxx series cards ... :)

Then again it may be a "temporary" thing when ATI hears about it ... there may be a way to change the API so that this stops being an issue. Sometimes they can be real clever these software types. Remember the OpenCL is very new ...

Heck, we are a year plus into GPU computing on BOINC and it is still not working as well as it should ...

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Message 13691 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009 | 22:40:59 UTC - in response to Message 13689.

Is it slow because it uses system RAM or just does not have any GPU Cache RAM???

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Message 13692 - Posted: 25 Nov 2009 | 2:55:05 UTC - in response to Message 13691.

graphics dont really need cache so ATi can get away with out having it working for now. GPGPU is a very different story. btw, its not technically a cache. its called local data share. as of now only brook and IL have support for LDS. its the exact same reason folding@home is so slow on ATi cards. to give you an idea of how fast LDS is vram is 115GB/s and LDS is 1.9TB/s on a 4870, a lot of apps need that bandwidth which is almost 20x faster than main memory access.

Is it slow because it uses system RAM or just does not have any GPU Cache RAM???

the cache is there but it will take a driver update to get it working so for now its vram.

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Message 13693 - Posted: 25 Nov 2009 | 8:17:57 UTC - in response to Message 13638.

I updated beta drivers + OpenCL SDK as requested

Starting BOINC client version 6.10.19 for windows_x86_64
ATI GPU 0: ATI Radeon HD5700 series (Juniper) (CAL version 1.4.467, 1024MB, 1360 GFLOPS peak)
OS: Microsoft Windows 7: Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Message from server: No work sent
Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU


Exaclty the same here (except for having client 6.10.18). Same GPU/OS. Enabled doing Beta Work in the account settings. But still getting no work.
I'm looking forward to help you, but don't know how.

Johannes

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Message 13697 - Posted: 25 Nov 2009 | 14:20:22 UTC - in response to Message 13693.

I updated beta drivers + OpenCL SDK as requested

Starting BOINC client version 6.10.19 for windows_x86_64
ATI GPU 0: ATI Radeon HD5700 series (Juniper) (CAL version 1.4.467, 1024MB, 1360 GFLOPS peak)
OS: Microsoft Windows 7: Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Message from server: No work sent
Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU


Exaclty the same here (except for having client 6.10.18). Same GPU/OS. Enabled doing Beta Work in the account settings. But still getting no work.
I'm looking forward to help you, but don't know how.

Johannes

And even with my slow HD4850 I'd like to do some test WUs before giving up here but well... I don't get work either. *grin*
I've updated my account settings, drivers and the sdk package but no success.

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Message 13699 - Posted: 25 Nov 2009 | 20:21:21 UTC - in response to Message 13697.

We are not giving work yet. Waiting for a ATI5870 to test.
gdf

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Message 13748 - Posted: 1 Dec 2009 | 15:46:42 UTC - in response to Message 13699.
Last modified: 1 Dec 2009 | 15:48:37 UTC

Any updates? Did you contact PoorBoy on his generous offer? This is the project I wish to see 5xxx implemented, then I will go and buy these cards. I'm not prepared to do that just for mathematical problems (Collatz), but this project and the science made makes it almost sound smart ;)

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Message 13753 - Posted: 1 Dec 2009 | 21:03:33 UTC - in response to Message 13748.

We could not find a 5870, but we got a 5850 that should be good enough.
I have just installed now, removing the old 8800gt.

gdf

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Message 13754 - Posted: 2 Dec 2009 | 4:25:41 UTC - in response to Message 13753.
Last modified: 2 Dec 2009 | 4:26:35 UTC

Would any of the WU's require double precision? The new 57xx's apparently don't have support for it...

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Message 13755 - Posted: 2 Dec 2009 | 5:35:44 UTC - in response to Message 13753.

We could not find a 5870, but we got a 5850 that should be good enough.
I have just installed now, removing the old 8800gt.

gdf


I find this interesting that in the USA there is no ATI 5800/5900 GPUs
Even in far distant New Zealand I can get ATI 5970 in 3 days.
I would love to crunch GPUGRID again but had to give up with a 295.
I am cruching Collatz now because a 5790 can rip though the WUs 2 every 7 mins.
So come get a optiz - app for ATI cards . You are missing out on so much Computer Power
Ross
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Message 13766 - Posted: 3 Dec 2009 | 8:56:23 UTC - in response to Message 13755.

We are working on the optimization now. We will not put the application out until it delivers what a 5870 should deliver in terms of performance. Be patient.

gdf

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Message 13773 - Posted: 3 Dec 2009 | 15:48:39 UTC

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Message 13774 - Posted: 3 Dec 2009 | 17:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 13766.

We are working on the optimization now. We will not put the application out until it delivers what a 5870 should deliver in terms of performance. Be patient.

gdf




Some of us are getting too old to have Patience ... :)

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Message 13777 - Posted: 3 Dec 2009 | 22:10:19 UTC - in response to Message 13766.

We are working on the optimization now. We will not put the application out until it delivers what a 5870 should deliver in terms of performance. Be patient.

gdf

Great, I will be patient!
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Message 13801 - Posted: 5 Dec 2009 | 20:07:39 UTC - in response to Message 13766.

Well, if the performance of 5850(70) would be equal to the performance of nVidia top devices, this optimization will be successful, otherwise no one would use their top ATI cards with PPD of 2 years old nVidia. But honestly I hope ATI would outperform nVidia in this very important project. Good Luck Fellows.

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Message 13802 - Posted: 5 Dec 2009 | 22:44:43 UTC

Despite credits GPU-Grid has one major advantage compared to both other BOINC projects for ATI: it's got a reliable server and enough work. If MW and Collatz were running fine, they'd offer enough work as well.. but for now MW still crashes rather often and when ever this happens the Collatz server is brought to its knees. GPU-Grid could bring some balance to the force ;)

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Message 13803 - Posted: 6 Dec 2009 | 0:09:03 UTC - in response to Message 13802.

Despite credits GPU-Grid has one major advantage compared to both other BOINC projects for ATI: it's got a reliable server and enough work. If MW and Collatz were running fine, they'd offer enough work as well.. but for now MW still crashes rather often and when ever this happens the Collatz server is brought to its knees. GPU-Grid could bring some balance to the force ;)

MrS


I agree, Collatz has been down for about 2 Days now so I'm forced to run Milkyway which I don't particularly like to do anymore because I have to Babysit my Box's to much to keep an eye out for VPU Errors which I don't get running Collatz. So having a Third Option here at GPUGrid will be most welcome even if it doesn't Pay as much as Collatz or Milkyway ...

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Message 13814 - Posted: 6 Dec 2009 | 22:56:51 UTC - in response to Message 13803.

Agreed. I have my old 9800 GTX+ on this, but I would really like to use my 5870 on a project that will do mankind some real good. I like MW and all, I think it's neat, but well, you know. F@H still hasn't updated their ATI app to work properly with them either, so not a lot of options out there for us ATI primary crunchers.

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Message 13853 - Posted: 9 Dec 2009 | 15:25:24 UTC

I am looking forward to this. I'll pull the trigger on some 5870s as soon as they work on the Grid. They are still hard to find but that should improve too.

Regards,
Bob

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Message 13914 - Posted: 13 Dec 2009 | 20:30:19 UTC

Any update? I'm looking to get some 5870s. I won't do it unless they can contribute here.

Thx,
Bob

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Message 13917 - Posted: 14 Dec 2009 | 7:04:36 UTC - in response to Message 13915.
Last modified: 14 Dec 2009 | 7:12:28 UTC

Duplicate post. Don't see how to delete it...

Any update? I'm looking to get some 5870s. I won't do it unless they can contribute here.

Thx,
Bob


I haven't found any way to completely delete a post on GPUGRID, but for perhaps an hour after you post it you can edit the duplicate down to just one line:

(duplicate)

Also, once you've done that to two different posts, a duplicate post detector program (probably) will be able to detect two different posts from you with the same contents, and delete the second one for you. If the duplicate post detector is also able to do this for normal length posts, that's new enough I haven't seen it happen before.


I'm still trying to find out what recommended Nvidia boards or ATI boards will fit either of my desktops by some means other than paying for both the boards and the service of installing them before finding out if they will fit at all; that still appears to be the best method available locally. I'm no longer able to handle the installation work by myself.

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Message 13921 - Posted: 14 Dec 2009 | 9:52:20 UTC - in response to Message 13917.

We are working on the code to get it faster on ATI and Nvidia. My impression is that the G300 will be faster, but it still early to say it.
We expect to have something new by the time ATI releases a new version of the OpenCL SDK. Probably in January.


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Message 13946 - Posted: 15 Dec 2009 | 13:48:39 UTC - in response to Message 13917.

I'm still trying to find out what recommended Nvidia boards or ATI boards will fit either of my desktops by some means other than paying for both the boards and the service of installing them before finding out if they will fit at all; that still appears to be the best method available locally. I'm no longer able to handle the installation work by myself.


What cases/ cards are you thinking about?
We should be able to determine from specs on the cases and the cards if they will fit and we can also see if we can find someone who has already tried the same case/ card configuration to confirm.
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Message 13962 - Posted: 16 Dec 2009 | 6:08:54 UTC

Thx GDF. Will be standing by.

Regards,
Bob

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Message 13972 - Posted: 17 Dec 2009 | 18:18:24 UTC - in response to Message 13753.

We could not find a 5870, but we got a 5850 that should be good enough.
I have just installed now, removing the old 8800gt.

gdf


it could be useful for you to have a computer (Q6600 + ATI5970) in remote control (LogMeIn or something else) to make your tests ?

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Message 13973 - Posted: 17 Dec 2009 | 19:03:36 UTC

Hi to everyone,

I've a system that could be useful to test an ATI GPU client.

OS: Ubuntu 9.04 64 Bit
MObo : DFI Lanparty DK-790FXB M2RSH
Mem: 4.096 Gb DDR2
CPU: Phenom II 955 BE 3.2 Ghz
GPUs: 2 x ATI RADEON HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 (Vendor: PALIT) CROSSFIRE X activated
DRIVES : fglrx 9.8 Catalyst

If could it be usefull...

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Message 13981 - Posted: 18 Dec 2009 | 9:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 13972.

Yes, your system could be useful. The 4xxx no, they cannot be supported.
Is it on Linux?

gdf

We could not find a 5870, but we got a 5850 that should be good enough.
I have just installed now, removing the old 8800gt.

gdf


it could be useful for you to have a computer (Q6600 + ATI5970) in remote control (LogMeIn or something else) to make your tests ?

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Message 13983 - Posted: 18 Dec 2009 | 12:42:08 UTC - in response to Message 13981.

Currently only Win XP32 is installed, computer is clean, used only for crunching.
I can install Linux Ubuntu 64bit in dual boot if you need it (or clean install), but you have to tell me which remote control software you prefer (I don't think LogMeIn works on Linux).

please wait till monday till I'll be back to home

Paolo



Yes, your system could be useful. The 4xxx no, they cannot be supported.
Is it on Linux?

gdf


it could be useful for you to have a computer (Q6600 + ATI5970) in remote control (LogMeIn or something else) to make your tests ?


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Message 13990 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009 | 6:31:21 UTC
Last modified: 19 Dec 2009 | 6:35:43 UTC

Where are the files for the ATI version ?
Could You add an access point ON the internet page for ATI card ?
I have an 4850, the latest ATI Drivers 9.12 Vista 64bits with OPENCL, so it ould be possible to use these HD48x board to crunch you ATI version Of gpugrid.
BOINC 6.10.24.. I dont found your ati soft to test it with this release of drivers.

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Message 13992 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009 | 11:00:05 UTC - in response to Message 13990.


Hello,

I wonder if the 5770 would be usefull when the new app is available.

Those cards are *cheap*, easy to find, but....... simple precision :(

thanks

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Message 13993 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009 | 14:32:32 UTC - in response to Message 13992.
Last modified: 19 Dec 2009 | 14:36:55 UTC

Hi all,
I have an ATI Radeon HD 5770, I would also like to know if that card will be supported.
I was quite shocked when I found out that my new bought card couldn´t do DP. At this moment I can only crunch Collatz C, but I would like to donate my Computing power to something usefull :D.
I think this card would be very usefull, because the power is pretty good: Collatz C: ~750 Credits / 14min = ~77k Credits / 24h.
I could also do alpha testing for you, if it´s not to complicated.

My System:

    Intel Core i7 860
    Asus P7P55D
    8GB G.Skill Ripsaw DDR3 1333
    Powercolor Radeon HD 5770
    500 GB Samsung F2
    beQiuet Straight Power 400W
    Windows 7 Professional 64 bit


Too much detail, but I´m proud of my self assembled system :D.

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Message 13995 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009 | 17:24:43 UTC - in response to Message 13993.

Cool system, but your power supply unit looks a bit weak to me!

If you use that GPU close to its full potential your system will melt.

For that GPU I would reccomend a 700W or better PSU, with high AMPs on the 12V rail.

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Message 13999 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 0:58:41 UTC - in response to Message 13995.

...your system will melt.
...


I have a i7 x3440 @ 3100
P55 motherborad, 4 Gb Ripsaw, 1 disk
HD 5770

my system pulls 230 W from the plug (wattmeter)

So a 400 W PSU will be OK but not quiet.


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Message 14000 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 2:17:39 UTC - in response to Message 13995.

The powersupply is perfect for this system:
CPU: max 95 Watt
GPU: max 100 Watt
I don´t know how much power the other parts of the system need, but I think the overall max. usage is 300 Watt, but definatelly nowhere near 400 Watts.
Is there any software, which shows the power consumption of the whole system?

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Message 14003 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 14:56:34 UTC - in response to Message 13999.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009 | 15:01:49 UTC

OK, you are sort of correct, but missed my somewhat hidden point.
Yes, you are using the P55 board, which consumes a lot less power, and the i7 CPU for that board is also much more energy efficient. So the PSU will give you enough Watts.

However, the problem is Not the Power (Watts), its the Amps feeding the GPU, and medium range PSUs don’t have the Amps.
I know the HD 5770 only uses 108W max, but the recommended PSU is at least 500W, and some people suggest you need a PSU capable of 40A on the 12Vold rail.
If you are using 2 cards you will need 55A.
Try looking for a 500W PSU with 40A on the 12V rail - you wont find too many!
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5770-in-3way-crossfirex-review-test/3

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Message 14005 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 16:35:43 UTC - in response to Message 14003.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009 | 16:36:18 UTC

OK, good to know.
The configurator on the beQuiet homepage recommended me the 400W PSU.
The manual says: 3 x 12V 18A, and 30A max.
Which problems could occur? I have run GPU Computing in BOINC for more than 24 hours and played graphics intensive games, no problems so far.
Well, it´s too late anyway, I don´t want to spend more money on my system.
As long as I don´t come across any problems with the PSU, I´ll keep it.

PS: When I play games with boinc coputing on the GPU in the background, the graphics driver will fail and restart, but I don´t think it´s the fault of the PSU, but rather that games and GPGPU don´t like each other yet.

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Message 14007 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 19:12:24 UTC - in response to Message 14005.

Although the card could be overheating, or there might be software bugs in the game, it might actually be the power supply to blame!
When you use the GPU to the max, it requires more energy, so the Amps have to go up.
If the PSU cant pull enough Amps to support the card the system may freeze/lock up or the graphics may start displaying odd characteristics.
It is a good idea to not use GPUGrid when you are playing games! Perhaps set Boinc to not use the GPU when you are using the system:
Opem Boinc (in Advanced View), select the Advanced Tab, Preferences, Processor usage, and uncheck the box beside Use GPU while computer is in use.

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Message 14009 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 20:22:04 UTC - in response to Message 14007.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009 | 20:23:18 UTC

I have created a cc_config.xml with several apps that shall run in exclusive mode. This way BOINC automatically stops computing when e.g. a game runs.

The GPU is constantly at 60-65°C when computing, even after many hours.
When I play a game while BOINC is doing computation on the GPU, the game stutters and then freezes soon and the driver restarts.
So, do you think this could be because of the PSU not delivering enough Amps to the GPU?

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Message 14010 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 22:00:42 UTC - in response to Message 14009.


The VPU recovery you have is not a Powersupply problem, it is somehow an incompatibility between Boinc (GPU) and heavy-GPU apps, such as games.

Collatz is not very concerned by that problem, just try MW and you'll see much more frequent problems than that...

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Message 14011 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009 | 22:58:47 UTC - in response to Message 14010.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009 | 22:59:28 UTC

That´s what I thought, too. It doesn´t have anything to do with the PSU. I still believe my PSU is perfect for my system and that I will not encounter any problems with it :D.

PS: May I participate in the alpha testing?

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Message 14012 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 11:47:23 UTC - in response to Message 14011.
Last modified: 21 Dec 2009 | 11:48:03 UTC

There are 2 ways you can determine if it is a PSU issue or not.

If you have an Amp/Watt meter, use it to see what Wattage and Ampages are being used when playing the game and when not.

The other way would be to run the latest version of GPU-Z and look at the amount of the GPU being used.
It will likely be about 60% to 70% running GPUGrid. If you try to run additional applications that use the GPU, this may rise, it depends on the application. If it rises significantly or the amount of RAM usage rises significantly then obviously the GPU is drawing more Amps! If neither change significantly then there is no way it is a PSU issue.

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Message 14014 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 14:53:37 UTC - in response to Message 14012.
Last modified: 21 Dec 2009 | 14:57:37 UTC

I don´t want to draw too much attention, so here´s just a URL:
GPU-Z shows while Collatz C is computing on the GPU:
GPU-Z.
Collatz C occupies ~58MB of system Ram.
Tell me what you think.

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Message 14018 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 19:46:30 UTC

A lot of off-topic here, I'd like to read about ATI GPU support in GPUgrid instead of this chat here...

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Message 14021 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 21:12:34 UTC - in response to Message 13921.

We are working on the code to get it faster on ATI and Nvidia. My impression is that the G300 will be faster, but it still early to say it.
We expect to have something new by the time ATI releases a new version of the OpenCL SDK. Probably in January.


gdf



Stream 2.0 SDK is here (no more beta)
http://developer.amd.com/GPU/ATISTREAMSDK/Pages/default.aspx

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Message 14023 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 22:46:23 UTC - in response to Message 14003.

I know the HD 5770 only uses 108W max, but the recommended PSU is at least 500W, and some people suggest you need a PSU capable of 40A on the 12Vold rail.


And may I suggest that these people are wrong?

The point is that 108 W = 12 V * 9 A. So each card draws 9 A max, if we ignore any power draw at 3.3 V and 5 V. Why would one need 40 A for that? Only if the CPU draws 31 A at 12 V -> 372 W. Now that's one bad ass number even *Presshots* can only dream about ;)

What he should approximately need is a PSU which puts the 9A @ 12 V on one rail and the max 95 W ~ 12 V * 8 A for the CPU onto another one. Both could even be fed from one of his 3 12 V rails at max 18 A (would be risky & silly, though).

Although the card could be overheating, or there might be software bugs in the game, it might actually be the power supply to blame!


Technically that's true, but I don't think that's happening here. From what I have seen I can tell you that games and GP-GPU don't mix well yet, be it ATI or NV. So some software problem is very likely.

If you have an Amp/Watt meter, use it to see what Wattage and Ampages are being used when playing the game and when not.


This works if you exceed total wattage. But you can not easily look into the PS, so you can't know if individual rails are overloaded (really nasty error).

If it rises significantly or the amount of RAM usage rises significantly then obviously the GPU is drawing more Amps! If neither change significantly then there is no way it is a PSU issue.


But if the load changes, it does not have to be a PSU problem ;)

IMO there is on simple and almost reliable test for PSU problems: try a bigger (quality) one. If the problem goes away - you just found the reason. If not - look elsewhere.

-> back to topic, it's a sticky after all *doh*

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Message 14024 - Posted: 21 Dec 2009 | 23:03:17 UTC - in response to Message 14021.

I have just seen this. This is very good news. We are trying it out.

gdf

We are working on the code to get it faster on ATI and Nvidia. My impression is that the G300 will be faster, but it still early to say it.
We expect to have something new by the time ATI releases a new version of the OpenCL SDK. Probably in January.


gdf



Stream 2.0 SDK is here (no more beta)
http://developer.amd.com/GPU/ATISTREAMSDK/Pages/default.aspx

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Message 14025 - Posted: 22 Dec 2009 | 0:25:32 UTC - in response to Message 14024.
Last modified: 22 Dec 2009 | 0:48:27 UTC

Sorry for the "chat".
I´ve had no problems with my PSU yet and as long as everything works, I won´t change it. At least when I get some problems, I will check, if it could be the PSU.
Hopefully the "chat is over now, I don´t want to hijack this thread any longer.

Back to topic:
Does this mean that all GPU-Projects can easily program ATI WUs now?

There is also a new version of catalyst. AMD says Radeon 5000 Series are 6-9% with this version(see here).

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Message 14034 - Posted: 22 Dec 2009 | 22:14:35 UTC - in response to Message 14025.

Does this mean that all GPU-Projects can easily program ATI WUs now?


Without further reading I'd say "as easy as before". It's still their proprietary Stream SDK and different from CUDA and OpenCL.

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Message 14038 - Posted: 23 Dec 2009 | 11:48:30 UTC - in response to Message 14034.
Last modified: 23 Dec 2009 | 11:49:42 UTC

maybe interesting for you guys.
ATI publishes Evergreen Family Instruction Set Architecture - Instructions and Microcode
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzgzMg
http://developer.amd.com/gpu/ATIStreamSDK/assets/AMD_Evergreen-Family_ISA_Instructions_and_Microcode.pdf
Together with the new SDK it will maybe helpfull to set up a performand stream-code of your application.

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Message 14056 - Posted: 25 Dec 2009 | 7:05:48 UTC

What do I have to do to get some work units to download to my i7 with a couple of 5870's. Thanks

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Message 14097 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010 | 0:34:34 UTC

Hello, I have 2 HD5870 and I would like to know when the new ATI application is planned for your project ?

Anthony

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Message 14117 - Posted: 4 Jan 2010 | 12:32:34 UTC - in response to Message 14097.

I would also like to know!
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Message 14118 - Posted: 4 Jan 2010 | 14:46:30 UTC - in response to Message 14117.

hi,
we are back to work now.
There will be several good news in the next couple of weeks. We have been working a lot on the optimization for both nvidia and ati.

GDF.

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Message 14120 - Posted: 4 Jan 2010 | 15:32:05 UTC - in response to Message 14118.

Worst cliffhanger ever. Keep up the good work.

-me.

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Message 14128 - Posted: 5 Jan 2010 | 23:05:18 UTC

For the sake of my poor, though willing, GTS 250, give it a rest and make my 58' happy :-)

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Message 14129 - Posted: 5 Jan 2010 | 23:31:29 UTC - in response to Message 14118.

hi,
we are back to work now.
There will be several good news in the next couple of weeks. We have been working a lot on the optimization for both nvidia and ati.

In the world of BOINC, no news is never good news ... :)

I eagerly anticipate the good word ... faster applications are always welcome and I now have one 58xx class card so even if the ATI is not good enough for the 4xxx class and below, well, I have at least one more asset to apply ... and as the Nvidia cards die I may just move over to ATI for all ...

Anyway, thanks for the update ...

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Message 14132 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010 | 1:19:42 UTC - in response to Message 13946.

I'm still trying to find out what recommended Nvidia boards or ATI boards will fit either of my desktops by some means other than paying for both the boards and the service of installing them before finding out if they will fit at all; that still appears to be the best method available locally. I'm no longer able to handle the installation work by myself.


What cases/ cards are you thinking about?
We should be able to determine from specs on the cases and the cards if they will fit and we can also see if we can find someone who has already tried the same case/ card configuration to confirm.


If HP says just what cases they're using, they make that information hidden well enough that I haven't found it yet. I'm no longer able to move them well enough to inspect the cases for case model numbers.

Model numbers for the whole computers are SR5125CL and d5200t, though.

I haven't chosen the GPU cards yet, so I'm interested in any that both fit and are able to run GPUGRID.

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Message 14152 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010 | 19:54:43 UTC - in response to Message 14132.

robertmiles,
I still think the safe bet is the GT 240, as they do not require any additional power connectors, and are quite short in length.
If you are interested in an ATI card, I would suggest you wait until several have been reviewed here - then you will know which cards actually work well enough to be considered.

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Message 14153 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010 | 20:37:18 UTC - in response to Message 14152.

So far, we still strongly suggest to wait for the Fermi-based Nvidia cards.
This is most certainly the fastest card.

GDF

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Message 14154 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010 | 21:23:52 UTC - in response to Message 14153.

Even faster then HD5970?
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Message 14155 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010 | 22:07:21 UTC

could you give us an idea of the performance from these new clients? specifically performance of 5870. or is it too early to tell?

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Message 14156 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010 | 2:16:12 UTC - in response to Message 14132.

Model numbers for the whole computers are SR5125CL and d5200t

I took a look around the internet and found an interior picture of the d520t. The HP spec says it is an ATX size motherbpard and the picture shows no obstruction for the full with from the PCI-E slot to the edge of the board (being a full tower the HDD cage is not in the way from what I can see) so I think a full size card would fit fine. I will try looking again, maybe even find someone with the same case. We can always try calling HP and see if they will tell us what the exact layout is.
I'll post back as soon as I have anything to report.

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Message 14157 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010 | 3:53:34 UTC - in response to Message 14153.

So far, we still strongly suggest to wait for the Fermi-based Nvidia cards.
This is most certainly the fastest card.

GDF

we'll see how much NV faster then ATI 2morrow on CES :-)
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Message 14158 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010 | 14:59:03 UTC - in response to Message 14157.


we'll see how much NV faster then ATI 2morrow on CES :-)


You will not see any new grafik card from NV on CES. They don't have it now on CES. But they say it is in production now. You have to wait until March.



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Message 14162 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010 | 19:44:15 UTC - in response to Message 14158.

Waiting is nice thing, but in March My Radeon HD5870 will be 6 month baby :)

So after six month's nvidia will relased - must relased faster card...
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Message 14164 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010 | 22:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 14158.


we'll see how much NV faster then ATI 2morrow on CES :-)


You will not see any new grafik card from NV on CES. They don't have it now on CES. But they say it is in production now. You have to wait until March.


sorry to say buddy, but IT on CES :-) check the latest news and u'll see even pics :-)
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Message 14168 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010 | 21:40:07 UTC

Hi I have 5840 ati gpu

on win 7 64bit ver.

On main bainc page I can see that I can run this project, but here there is no info how to do it.

My boinc manager 6.10.18 says

2010-01-10 16:37:35 GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
2010-01-10 16:37:35 GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
2010-01-10 16:37:35 GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU


What can I do about it?????
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Message 14169 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010 | 21:41:22 UTC - in response to Message 14168.

my card is 5870

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Message 14170 - Posted: 11 Jan 2010 | 8:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 14156.

Model numbers for the whole computers are SR5125CL and d5200t

I took a look around the internet and found an interior picture of the d520t. The HP spec says it is an ATX size motherbpard and the picture shows no obstruction for the full with from the PCI-E slot to the edge of the board (being a full tower the HDD cage is not in the way from what I can see) so I think a full size card would fit fine. I will try looking again, maybe even find someone with the same case. We can always try calling HP and see if they will tell us what the exact layout is.
I'll post back as soon as I have anything to report.


I just thought of yet another option even more relevant to this thread, possibly helped by recently finding the web site of a nearby company likely to offer any home installation services needed: Are there any HD58xx cards likely to be suitable for the power supply the SR5125CL already has, and also likely to fit?

Also, is GPUGRID interested in offering participants with more than one computer the option of accepting beta work on some machines, but not others, and possibly even setting the share of GPUGRID GPU use differently on those different machines?

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Message 14171 - Posted: 11 Jan 2010 | 11:08:29 UTC - in response to Message 14170.
Last modified: 11 Jan 2010 | 11:08:49 UTC

Today we start to perform local performance tests on ATI.
A new nvidia beta application should come out in a couple of days as well.

gdf

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Message 14172 - Posted: 11 Jan 2010 | 13:31:21 UTC - in response to Message 14171.

thank You for info

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Message 14174 - Posted: 11 Jan 2010 | 15:35:54 UTC - in response to Message 14171.

Today we start to perform local performance tests on ATI.
A new nvidia beta application should come out in a couple of days as well.

gdf

pls keep us posted :-)

where I can read about nvidia beta application?
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Message 14179 - Posted: 12 Jan 2010 | 13:36:47 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.

gdf


Where are any instructions on how to accept beta work? Or is arranged in such a way that no instructions are needed?

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Message 14180 - Posted: 12 Jan 2010 | 13:48:00 UTC - in response to Message 14179.

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.

gdf

Where are any instructions on how to accept beta work? Or is arranged in such a way that no instructions are needed?

Your project preferences page, change "Run test applications?" from 'no' to 'yes'.

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Message 14181 - Posted: 12 Jan 2010 | 15:19:26 UTC - in response to Message 14180.

2010-01-12 16:16:35 GPUGRID Requesting new tasks for GPU
2010-01-12 16:16:40 GPUGRID Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
2010-01-12 16:16:40 GPUGRID Message from server: No work sent
2010-01-12 16:16:40 GPUGRID Message from server: Your computer has no NVIDIA GPU


\but i have Ati 5870 and i have accept beta work , there is no samples????
or should I also mark nvidia in settings??

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Message 14190 - Posted: 13 Jan 2010 | 9:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 14181.

On linux,
the new driver simply hangs the machine as soon as it runs.
Also, the driver seems to be still beta (at least for linux) reporting a "for testing only".

We shall try under Windows.

gdf

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Message 14191 - Posted: 13 Jan 2010 | 15:37:51 UTC - in response to Message 14190.


hello gdf,

do you know if single precision cards could be used for this ? like 5770 ?

thanks for this enhancement anyway.

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Message 14192 - Posted: 13 Jan 2010 | 17:26:21 UTC

Hi i operate ATI 5870 system win 7 64 bit
bonic 6.10.18

bonic can not see a gpu, is telling that I do not have nvidia card..

I have marked accept beta works in settings?

are any beta samples for my PC ?

regards....

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Message 14194 - Posted: 13 Jan 2010 | 21:00:21 UTC

there is currently no beta work for ATi cards. if you read the whole thread from the start you can see that the ATi client is currently getting ready for beta testing.

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Message 14227 - Posted: 17 Jan 2010 | 19:29:08 UTC

GDF,

what's the results of ATI app testing?

BTW, later this week i'll get 4870, so feel free to use it for testing.
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Message 14240 - Posted: 18 Jan 2010 | 17:00:16 UTC - in response to Message 14227.

I'm not GDF, but if I remember correctly, a post earlier in this thread said that the HD 48xx series has already been found not to be useful for GPUGRID with the current ATI driver due to the way global memory is implemented. Hopefully, a future ATI driver will change that.

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Message 14243 - Posted: 18 Jan 2010 | 17:50:46 UTC - in response to Message 14240.

Hopefully, a future ATI driver will change that.


Catalyst developers have clearly said that they will not change it. Hardware speaking, it would be very difficult if not impossible.
Only benefit HD4xxx will get will be from general optimizations. Memory management will always be terrible on HD4xxx

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Message 14246 - Posted: 18 Jan 2010 | 20:25:19 UTC - in response to Message 14243.

The current driver hangs the machine. We reported the problem to ATI.

gdf

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Message 14250 - Posted: 19 Jan 2010 | 8:27:47 UTC - in response to Message 14246.

We will support only 5xxx series cards based on the new GPU chips.

GDF

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Message 14254 - Posted: 20 Jan 2010 | 19:08:08 UTC

it's pity, but not a big deal at all. Anyway, 4870 is just a toy: I want to understand sould I stay with NV (future GTX395?) or should I move to ATI and get 5970 or even two of them. If 5970 will be not worse then future GTX395 and GPUGRID will start to support ATI most probably I'll mov to ATI, but if not - I'm staying with NV.
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Message 14255 - Posted: 20 Jan 2010 | 21:26:18 UTC - in response to Message 14254.

Forget GTX395 for quite a while. Fermi is so amazingly large, they just can't put two of them onto one card. Not without lowering the clocks so much that it really hurts.

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Message 14259 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010 | 2:35:49 UTC - in response to Message 14250.

We will support only 5xxx series cards based on the new GPU chips.

GDF

So the 57xx cards will also work? What about the 4770 since it's built on the 40nm chip? Thanks!

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Message 14260 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010 | 7:08:05 UTC - in response to Message 14259.
Last modified: 21 Jan 2010 | 7:08:27 UTC

The 5xxx series saw a re-design, which in my opinion, was partially tailored to OpenCL, and the 4xxx series obviously isn't. During testing, they found that there is a significant (enough of a) penalty in the emulation of memory using global memory that made the application unfeasible.

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Message 14264 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010 | 16:47:33 UTC

hello,

i don't understand why gpugrid aske me to install beta driver and ati sdk also milkyway run with my 5850 without i must ATI app supply!

But i would prefer crunching for gpugrid but i see the atie sdk on the amd website but i no beta driver! Where i can dl theses beta driver?

Win7 64

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Message 14268 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010 | 20:20:44 UTC - in response to Message 14264.

@GDF
can you give us a little teaser about the performance of a ATI 58xx card with the new application?
How do they perform in comparison with a, lets say GTX285?

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Message 14271 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010 | 21:51:16 UTC - in response to Message 14264.

You'd currently need a beta driver because the other one doesn't work (don't know if the beta one does, though) and because the development is still in beta.

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Message 14279 - Posted: 22 Jan 2010 | 16:53:37 UTC - in response to Message 14271.

Any cards performance is based on both the cards abilities and the application exploiting these abilities.
The ATI applications are still in Beta development and there is a new application for NVidia cards in the late stages of development. Refinements are continuing.

So it will be a while before both are released, and we are really able to test these against each other.

There would be little point saying how an ATI card performs now compared to an NVidia 1.3 capable card as these NVidia cards will soon get an approximately 60% performance boost from the new application!

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Message 14313 - Posted: 25 Jan 2010 | 17:58:26 UTC - in response to Message 14279.

Can't give you any performance data for the RV800 hardware yet because the OpenCL SDK is still causing us problems. In short, we have a prototype application working but the driver is very unstable and often crashes the machine. We are continuing to work on it, but it seems that the ATI software needs to mature quite a bit before we can release anything.

As an aside, the OpenCL app works acceptably under Nvidia's OpenCL runtime, albeit with lower performance (Nvidia's OpenCL and CUDA tools don't share a common compiler, I understand, and seem to apply different optimisations).

For any of you interested to learn about our approach to converting from CUDA to OpenCL, and to see a spot of early performance data on an RV700 card, take a look at http://www.cse.scitech.ac.uk/disco/mew20/presentations/GPU_MattHarvey.pdf (from early Dec 09, and already dating a little).

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Message 14316 - Posted: 25 Jan 2010 | 22:20:12 UTC - in response to Message 14313.

Would the existing (although recently lessened) Furrier Transform memory allocation problem disappear if OpenCL was used instead of CUDA for NVidia cards?
If not would it be worth trying to develop a custom FFT implementation?

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Message 14323 - Posted: 26 Jan 2010 | 8:33:45 UTC - in response to Message 14316.

Hi, we are implementing our own FFT implementation for both Nvidia and ATI.
gdf

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Message 14324 - Posted: 26 Jan 2010 | 8:55:25 UTC - in response to Message 14323.

ATI STATUS.
The situation with ATI cards is the following:
We failed to produce performances better than a GT8800 with a HD5850. Even bigger problem is that the ATI OPENCL SDK is still very unstable, hanging the machine easily, so that we cannot optimize the application until it is stable.

We currently don't know if we can make it faster or not, but certainly it will take several months before the SDK becomes stable enough to be of practical use.

GDF

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Message 14417 - Posted: 27 Jan 2010 | 16:41:29 UTC - in response to Message 14324.

hmmm... perhaps someone needs to ask the f@h guys how they do it :)

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Message 14418 - Posted: 27 Jan 2010 | 17:45:43 UTC - in response to Message 14417.

I doubt that they use OpenCL, probably CAL.

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Message 14419 - Posted: 27 Jan 2010 | 20:24:31 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2010 | 20:24:55 UTC

openMM, aka gpu3, uses opencl but F@H is running into similar problems as gpugrid. two of their kernels wouldnt compile.

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Message 14794 - Posted: 29 Jan 2010 | 15:21:47 UTC - in response to Message 14419.

Hi thare I'm receiving work's for GPu ATI.
My 5870 is not occ, but it sending errors...
it is ACEMD beta version 6.03 (ati14)

estimated time is 1.20min but few sec ater starting procesing it info "error"
System win 7 64 bit
boinc manager 6.10.18

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Message 14795 - Posted: 29 Jan 2010 | 15:30:51 UTC - in response to Message 14794.

My fault. I forgot to remove the ATI app, while we are giving out the new beta app for nvidia.
Fixed now.
gdf

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Message 14796 - Posted: 29 Jan 2010 | 16:54:50 UTC - in response to Message 14419.
Last modified: 29 Jan 2010 | 16:56:04 UTC

OK....

so there is still no work for ati...:(

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Message 14808 - Posted: 29 Jan 2010 | 21:55:34 UTC - in response to Message 14796.

Take a look here.. you're not going to get any work soon, as GPU-Grid doesn't want to crash your machine.

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Message 15167 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 10:00:39 UTC - in response to Message 14324.

it will take several months before the SDK becomes stable enough to be of practical use.

GDF

maybe the situation is not so tragic in AMD...
SDK v2.01 is out, with many bugs fixed and some FFT samples (if you still need them). You could retry now and maybe report new bugs found, to help development!

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Message 15178 - Posted: 12 Feb 2010 | 14:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 15167.

We are testing it out.

gdf

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Message 15211 - Posted: 13 Feb 2010 | 13:33:21 UTC
Last modified: 13 Feb 2010 | 13:43:57 UTC

Please excuse my ignorance. But is GPUGRID using OpenCL or porting CUDA to OpenCL? If so, are there plans to go native with OpelCL or is ATI happy to ride around on Nvidia's horse? (BTW Kuda in Indonesian means horse, I know it's spelled with a C!)...

Punn set aside. Nvidia is a sponsor of GPUGRID, but if Einstein, SETI, or Collatz Conjecture can better utilize ATI cards, ATI card owners will be tempted to go there instead.
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Message 15212 - Posted: 13 Feb 2010 | 18:15:28 UTC - in response to Message 15211.

is GPUGRID using OpenCL or porting CUDA to OpenCL?


We use CUDA for our application. We are experimenting with OpenCL with a view to being able to use ATI cards, but results to date have not been encouraging.

MJH

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Message 15215 - Posted: 14 Feb 2010 | 11:52:22 UTC - in response to Message 15211.

but if Einstein, SETI, or Collatz Conjecture can better utilize ATI cards, ATI card owners will be tempted to go there instead.


Collatz and Milkyway make excellent use of the ATIs, computationally wise. Whether you think their science is worthwhile or not is up to you ;)

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Message 15272 - Posted: 17 Feb 2010 | 14:35:26 UTC - in response to Message 15178.

We are testing it out.

gdf

any good news? does it still crash when compiling?

could i suggest to release a beta app and work-units for ATi, even if performances are poor and maybe first results not really important for science?
We need an OpenCL app to start the chain: opencl boinc implementation -> optimizations -> newer releases -> drivers getting better -> users more satisfied -> new science -> new apps -> optimizations and so on...

Now you're in the position of being able to benefit another time gpgpu in boinc (such as when you developed the first cuda on boinc app) releasing early (and often, maybe) and breaking this stalled situation, if you have a working app (even if it's not great in performances, it will become better one day)

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Message 15273 - Posted: 17 Feb 2010 | 15:44:45 UTC

Have a read of this AMD Developer Forum thread - started by a programmer working on a BOINC project.

Doesn't seem to be much chance of a viable general-purpose OpenCL implementation in the near future.

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Message 15274 - Posted: 17 Feb 2010 | 16:12:48 UTC - in response to Message 15273.
Last modified: 17 Feb 2010 | 16:18:58 UTC

Have a read of this AMD Developer Forum thread - started by a programmer working on a BOINC project.

Doesn't seem to be much chance of a viable general-purpose OpenCL implementation in the near future.


There're some bugs, I know. And I read really often AMD developers forums, but there's not much activity going on there. I'm sure that a lot of discussions are going on behind the scenes via email, which I do not like in this stage because I think that on a forum everyone would benefit.

Raistmer has many problems porting multibeam to ati because of these problems with Apple FFT opencl implementation. But this is not the whole story: not every app needs FFT, and more important everybody could write a fast fourier transform implementation on OpenCL if this one doesn't fit your needs or is broken. We couldn't ask Raistmer to do this (he is in the lunatics crew), but here there's a whole project behind...
In this thread GdF (or someone of his group) said that they hadn't the possibility to implement one themselves too, but they were watching MANY implementations and that they could do some science at the beginning also without FFT-enabled app.

Do not forget that MANY apps written in OpenCL are working NOW (nothing on boinc, but boinc is just a little program that close-to-no one knows).

Also, I'm sure that we will have another refresh of the Stream SDK before those "few months" cited by genaganna: they said the same after SDK 2.0 but we have just had refresh 2.01 with many bug fixed. ATi is doing many efforts in their software departments (having learnt that hardware is not the only important thing) and maybe (maybe) genaganna doesn't know the whole story.

On the other hand: are gpugrid project developers writing on some developers forum (Apple, nvidia, ATi) about their problems or are they using emails??

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Message 15275 - Posted: 17 Feb 2010 | 17:39:50 UTC - in response to Message 15274.

Hi,
we are talking to ATI directly by email.
We managed to compile and run the old application. On a 5850 is at present 2.5 times slower than a GTX 275 and furthermore it does not allow to be used scientifically really. If we could work with the newer application that would be much better. Hopefully soon.

We will do a little boinc test to see how reliable is the ATI driver in the next couple of weeks.

gdf

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Message 15276 - Posted: 17 Feb 2010 | 17:50:44 UTC - in response to Message 15275.

Hi,
we are talking to ATI directly by email.
We managed to compile and run the old application. On a 5850 is at present 2.5 times slower than a GTX 275 and furthermore it does not allow to be used scientifically really. If we could work with the newer application that would be much better. Hopefully soon.

We will do a little boinc test to see how reliable is the ATI driver in the next couple of weeks.

gdf

thanks a lot for sharing the app status. I was sure that also you were talking privately with ati support.

ps: within 30 minutes 10.2 drivers will be out.
Watch on those for your reliability tests!

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Message 15321 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010 | 1:00:13 UTC - in response to Message 15276.

Hi, have crunched for GPUGrid before, on a 9800GTX+, which is now in use for other purposes. But I've got a rig ASUS P5E; X38; Q6600 and a ATI HD5770.
This is a 'single precision' unit, runs at Collatz C. at the moment.
Can I use this card with GPUGrid, also?


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Message 15322 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010 | 1:48:11 UTC - in response to Message 15321.

GPUGrid does not currently have work for ATI but they continue to review all new developments on the SDK from ATI and spin up new betas to test things out but afaik there is nothing imminent.
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Message 15392 - Posted: 23 Feb 2010 | 20:18:27 UTC - in response to Message 15211.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2010 | 20:20:18 UTC

Please excuse my ignorance. But is GPUGRID using OpenCL or porting CUDA to OpenCL? If so, are there plans to go native with OpelCL or is ATI happy to ride around on Nvidia's horse? (BTW Kuda in Indonesian means horse, I know it's spelled with a C!)...

Punn set aside. Nvidia is a sponsor of GPUGRID, but if Einstein, SETI, or Collatz Conjecture can better utilize ATI cards, ATI card owners will be tempted to go there instead.


Are you aware of any software for automatically converting CUDA to OpenCL? I'm not.

Are you aware of any ATI SDKs that include a reliable version of the FFT software? I'm not.

Are you aware of any BOINC versions, even still in alpha test, that can use OpenCL directly instead of compiling it to CUDA or ATI's equivalent first? I'm not. How do you expect an OpenCL-only BOINC application to be produced before there is a suitable version of BOINC to test it under, or do you want one with a very high error rate even for pre-alpha testing?

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Message 15393 - Posted: 23 Feb 2010 | 21:09:04 UTC - in response to Message 15392.

Please excuse my ignorance. But is GPUGRID using OpenCL or porting CUDA to OpenCL? If so, are there plans to go native with OpelCL or is ATI happy to ride around on Nvidia's horse? (BTW Kuda in Indonesian means horse, I know it's spelled with a C!)...

Punn set aside. Nvidia is a sponsor of GPUGRID, but if Einstein, SETI, or Collatz Conjecture can better utilize ATI cards, ATI card owners will be tempted to go there instead.


Are you aware of any software for automatically converting CUDA to OpenCL? I'm not.

Are you aware of any ATI SDKs that include a reliable version of the FFT software? I'm not.

Are you aware of any BOINC versions, even still in alpha test, that can use OpenCL directly instead of compiling it to CUDA or ATI's equivalent first? I'm not. How do you expect an OpenCL-only BOINC application to be produced before there is a suitable version of BOINC to test it under, or do you want one with a very high error rate even for pre-alpha testing?


Please don't shoot me for asking a question. The reason why I asked, was because I didn't know! ;-)
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Message 15395 - Posted: 23 Feb 2010 | 23:33:16 UTC - in response to Message 15393.

Liveonc,

Please excuse my ignorance. But is GPUGRID using OpenCL or porting CUDA to OpenCL?


The current GPUGRID application, ACEMD, is written using CUDA and is therefore limited to Nvidia cards. OpenCL has many similarities with CUDA and so we have been able to port a test version of ACEMD to run on ATI hardware. One of our aims is to have a single application code-base which we can compile for either CUDA or OpenCL, in order to keep the development effort manageable, and we've almost finished the work on this.

There are many practical issues that must be dealt with before we'll be in a position to release an ATI application, and these are broadly as follows:

1) application performance: the current performance on ATI is too poor to be of use to us (an HD5870 performs about as well as a GT8800). On paper the ATI hardware should perform very well so we are confident that we can improve matters with additional development work.

2) OpenCL runtime issues: ATI's OpenCL implementation lacks a few features that we need for good performance. Also, it is currently quite unstable and our development machine frequently crashes. We expect these problems to get fixed in time by ATI.

3) Testing: Once we have a feature-complete OpenCL/ATI application we need to rigorously test it to check that it gives correct results before we let it out into the wild. Ensuring we don't waste your kindly-dontated cycles carelessly is a responsibility we take seriously!

We know you're all keen to get your ATI crunching, and I'll keep you informed about our progress.

MJH

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Message 15396 - Posted: 24 Feb 2010 | 0:15:28 UTC - in response to Message 15393.

Please don't shoot me for asking a question. The reason why I asked, was because I didn't know! ;-)


I didn't intend to shoot you, but perhaps I was too forceful in answering your question.

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Message 15409 - Posted: 24 Feb 2010 | 19:51:04 UTC - in response to Message 15396.

Please don't shoot me for asking a question. The reason why I asked, was because I didn't know! ;-)


I didn't intend to shoot you, but perhaps I was too forceful in answering your question.



I uderstand that I used a punn, in my original question. The intention was good, a punn, is what I feel to be a humorous slap in the face with (if taken positively), can be a motivation for people to proove me dead wrong.

Ati has a range of products sold for a price that makes even hard core Nvidia fans want to cry (including myself). I just hoped that if Ati go for the kill, that Nvidia also will answer back (in a positive way), by doing something about it. In the end, consumers are the winners, unless Nvidia or Ati dies...
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Message 15412 - Posted: 24 Feb 2010 | 22:21:09 UTC - in response to Message 15409.

Well, they did: they greatly over-built Fermi for a not-so-good 40 nm process. They desperately wanted to become the clear number 1 again, but currently it looks more like "one bird in the hand would have been better than two on the roof". See the separate thread on Fermi.. but don't get too discouraged yet. Personally I'm still convinced they're not totally stupid ;)

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Message 15434 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010 | 15:34:37 UTC - in response to Message 15412.
Last modified: 25 Feb 2010 | 15:39:21 UTC

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, NVidia are releasing two cards, the GTX 480 and GTX 470, costing $679.99 and $479.99, how much is the bush worth?

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Message 15441 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010 | 18:55:33 UTC - in response to Message 15434.

ATI Stream Software Development Kit (SDK) v2.01 - more details.

Perhaps writing a program directly for ATI Stream would be a better strategy than using the early OpenCL implementation. MW and CC don't use OPENCL, they use ATI STREAM.
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Message 15443 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010 | 21:29:04 UTC - in response to Message 15441.

Both cards have gone walk about, so its $1159.98!

I think the project would be well advised to rely on their own programming abilities rather than hand me downs. If GPUGrid reports errors to NVidia and they dont even bother to reply, whats the point or even trying to talk to them?
Will ATI behave any better? I doubt it.

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Message 15445 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010 | 22:22:41 UTC

Going with ATI Stream would mean they'd definitely have to maintain and optimize 2 separate code bases. That's something one wants to avoid if possible at all. Sure, it could end up the same way with Open CL - but at least there's a chance here for a unified code base.

@SK: see Fermi thread.

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Message 15615 - Posted: 5 Mar 2010 | 5:04:16 UTC

Does GPUGRID compete with, or cooperate with folding@home? The don't use BOINC, they've got their own client. But can anything be ported? I've noticed that they support much more hardware then GPUGRID, but I don't know how good they utilize the hardware they support.
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Message 15624 - Posted: 5 Mar 2010 | 21:24:12 UTC - in response to Message 15615.

If their points system is anything to go by, their ability to optimise tasks/applications/GPUs is limited, very limited.
I found it a difficult project to work with. Some GPU's worked and some just would not go, including my GTX260sp216 that runs smoothly here. A GT8800 512 use to work well, but I prefer to crunch here, so I pulled that when it started to not do so well here.

I now also have a 4850 sitting in a pile of used parts because I pulled it out of a system and replaced it with another GT240. When I used the HD4850 I had to use a powerful system fan, leave the door off, put up with shiny blue lights and roaring noise - but not any more ;)

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Message 15632 - Posted: 6 Mar 2010 | 22:51:42 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

can i do the work on my laptop

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Message 15637 - Posted: 7 Mar 2010 | 11:42:02 UTC - in response to Message 15632.

http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=1458&nowrap=true#14324

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Message 15659 - Posted: 10 Mar 2010 | 7:31:14 UTC - in response to Message 15637.
Last modified: 10 Mar 2010 | 7:31:51 UTC

http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=1458&nowrap=true#14324

MrS



better this one: http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=1458&nowrap=true#15275

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Message 15847 - Posted: 20 Mar 2010 | 8:44:34 UTC - in response to Message 15659.

So an update on ATI. Their SDK is still very much capable of hanging the entire machine in Windows and Linux.

We will have to wait a little longer.

gdf

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Message 16430 - Posted: 19 Apr 2010 | 14:17:50 UTC

Anything new on the ATI Application ???
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Message 16437 - Posted: 19 Apr 2010 | 19:10:16 UTC - in response to Message 16430.

Still testing unstable SDKs.
gdf

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Message 16514 - Posted: 24 Apr 2010 | 8:18:38 UTC - in response to Message 14154.

Update on ATI.

For now a HD5850 is between 2 to 10 times slower than a GTX275 depending on the kernel run on it.

We don't know why this is so because the development environment is still quite immature for OpenCL (especially on Linux).

We are not expecting to have a reasonably fast ATI application for another couple of months minimum depending on how the ATI SDK evolves.

gdf

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Message 16522 - Posted: 24 Apr 2010 | 17:27:10 UTC - in response to Message 16514.

Update on ATI.

For now a HD5850 is between 2 to 10 times slower than a GTX275 depending on the kernel run on it.

We don't know why this is so because the development environment is still quite immature for OpenCL (especially on Linux).

We are not expecting to have a reasonably fast ATI application for another couple of months minimum depending on how the ATI SDK evolves.

gdf

Thank you for the update.

Sadly for GPU Grid I have been slowly migrating to ATI cards because of their higher performance on all of the other main GPU projects with lower cost in purchase and in electrical power, which is why I have been falling in the stats of late.

Here is hoping we can see a better environment soon so that we can continue to contribute regardless of configuration.

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Message 16611 - Posted: 28 Apr 2010 | 17:28:55 UTC - in response to Message 16522.

I think that we understood in a small test code what is the problem and why we did not get the performance. If we can replicate the fix to ACEMD and it works there as well, then there could be some very good news.

gdf

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Message 16617 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010 | 4:52:56 UTC - in response to Message 16611.

I think that we understood in a small test code what is the problem and why we did not get the performance. If we can replicate the fix to ACEMD and it works there as well, then there could be some very good news.

The best news I have had in, like, forever ...

Especially when I am on the verge of having 3 each HD5870 cards ... :)

If I recall correctly, GPU Grid will never be able to be run on less ... anyway ... I look forward to more ...

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Message 16621 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010 | 8:51:27 UTC - in response to Message 16617.
Last modified: 29 Apr 2010 | 8:52:34 UTC

Good news :)

If it will work it will be the fourth project for ATI.

1. MilkyWay@home
2. Collatz Conjecture
3. DNETC@HOME
4. and GPUGRID

I am keeping my fingers crossed!
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Message 16623 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010 | 12:15:06 UTC - in response to Message 16621.

Good news :)

If it will work it will be the fourth project for ATI.

1. MilkyWay@home
2. Collatz Conjecture
3. DNETC@HOME
4. and GPUGRID

I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Seti & Primegrid not fully optimized ;)

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Message 16625 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010 | 14:50:29 UTC - in response to Message 16623.

Seti & Primegrid not fully optimized ;)

SaH is a new application in testing, the last I checked the PG is not even in a beta test, it has only been tested in stand alone modes... even the one CUDA application has been retired because the sub-project is over. As of a couple a days ago there was no GPU application on PG in use ...

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Message 16724 - Posted: 1 May 2010 | 16:34:26 UTC

Well, Mr. Project Guy ... one more Nvidia pulled and replaced with ATI card ... puts my project standing in dire straits sadly ... but ... I have to cut my power and increase my throughput and this is the cheapest way for me to get from here to there ...

The one piece of good news is that though I only have 20 hours of testing in ... the GTX295 card I pulled from GPU Grid because Vista was giving me daily "Driver stopped" messages may be working better under Win7-64 (none so far, crosses fingers, raps wood ...) if that holds I will be putting that card back to work here ... so that is one plus out of all this ...

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Message 16725 - Posted: 1 May 2010 | 16:41:07 UTC - in response to Message 16724.

A big Plus, i'd say!

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Message 16735 - Posted: 2 May 2010 | 1:41:43 UTC - in response to Message 16725.

A big Plus, i'd say!

Been running not quite 24 hours ... going to take a couple of days to see a difference in stats I know ... and with the "pulsing" in the numbers it is hard to know where you are till you get at least a weeks data or better a month ... then you can average it out ... today's update had me at 705K for the day, not bad, but less than yesterday's 720, or the day before's 790 ...

My pending on Collatz is at an all time high though ... so ... that is good ... making money on DNETC and they seem to be making small changes over the batches so maybe we can close in on the problems they are seeing there ... I have been getting errors and hard to know why, asked for more logging and hours later I have a bunch of results with nice logs ...

Not sure if it is going to help with the "hang" problem though, if the task hangs and gets aborted if they just opened the log once it might be still open when the kill comes in and the log data will be lost ... if they do an open, append, close for each statement we might get some where ... though I saw a synch line in there that worries me ... it waits for the GPUs to end ... what if the GPU does not know it has ended, or sent the signal already?

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Message 16769 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 9:05:16 UTC - in response to Message 16735.

ATi OpenCL Stream SDK 2.1 is out now. Maybe it helps you with some bugfixing!

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Message 16771 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 9:10:49 UTC - in response to Message 16769.

Thanks, in this version, there could be the first working application.
We are working hard on ATI now and we like the hardware.

gdf

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Message 16772 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 10:31:11 UTC - in response to Message 16771.
Last modified: 3 May 2010 | 10:31:39 UTC

Which of the ATI cards are being used for development ?

Regards
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Message 16773 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 10:56:35 UTC - in response to Message 16772.
Last modified: 3 May 2010 | 10:56:51 UTC

One ATI HD5850 and a HD5670.
The current speed of a HD5850 on ACEMD is twice as slow as a GTX275 (one month ago was ten times). There is still scope for improvement. The code is not stable yet, maybe with 2.1.

gdf

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Message 16776 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 11:56:26 UTC - in response to Message 16773.
Last modified: 3 May 2010 | 11:56:45 UTC

Okie Doke - Many Thanks

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Message 16788 - Posted: 3 May 2010 | 17:46:03 UTC - in response to Message 16773.

One ATI HD5850 and a HD5670.
The current speed of a HD5850 on ACEMD is twice as slow as a GTX275 (one month ago was ten times). There is still scope for improvement. The code is not stable yet, maybe with 2.1.

gdf

Ugh, I would expect based on other projects that those numbers would be more like reversed ... :(

Still, as you note, still room for improvement...

Looking forward to being able to try it ... I seem to be down to only one card on GPU Grid in that I put the GTX295 card back into rotation but all the tasks seem to be failing ... :(

So, down to only one GTX280 card ... which on DNETC, Collatz and MW is considerably slower than the HD5870s which are my current backbone...

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Message 16833 - Posted: 5 May 2010 | 15:52:00 UTC

Hi I have a Win 7 64bit computer with Radeon 5870. I would like to help if it is needed.

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Message 16913 - Posted: 8 May 2010 | 20:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 16788.

Ugh, I would expect based on other projects that those numbers would be more like reversed ... :(


Just don't forget that ATIs 5-wide execution units give you more raw compute horse power per transistor, but are also harder to use efficiently. So you can't expect ATI to be faster for every algorithm.. otherwise nVidias design would be really stupid ;)

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Message 16915 - Posted: 8 May 2010 | 20:45:14 UTC - in response to Message 16913.
Last modified: 8 May 2010 | 20:48:05 UTC

... :)
That is funny. No, hilarious.

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Message 16959 - Posted: 11 May 2010 | 14:38:44 UTC - in response to Message 16915.

The SDK2.1 is better but still has several bugs in parts which are required to run the code reliably. We must wait for the next release.

In the meanwhile we are working on the performance with the help of AMD.

gdf

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Message 16960 - Posted: 11 May 2010 | 14:53:42 UTC - in response to Message 16959.

The SDK2.1 is better but still has several bugs in parts which are required to run the code reliably. We must wait for the next release.

In the meanwhile we are working on the performance with the help of AMD.

gdf

Thats is good news once again ... and if they are helping, maybe they will see first hand the problems with the SDK and that will improve the chances that that will be fixed as well ...

Thanks for the update ...

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Message 16962 - Posted: 11 May 2010 | 15:18:46 UTC - in response to Message 16959.
Last modified: 11 May 2010 | 15:19:26 UTC

In the meanwhile we are working on the performance with the help of AMD.

Very good news. Thanks!

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Message 16977 - Posted: 12 May 2010 | 5:05:08 UTC - in response to Message 16959.

The SDK2.1 is better but still has several bugs in parts which are required to run the code reliably. We must wait for the next release.

In the meanwhile we are working on the performance with the help of AMD.

gdf



New here with a 5870 open for testing if required. Awesome to read of the work going on here by everyone involved, and the help from AMD!

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Message 16996 - Posted: 13 May 2010 | 13:33:44 UTC

Great news, indeed! If you haven't done already, tell AMD that their help and hardware are greatly appreaciated in the world of BOINC :)

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Message 16997 - Posted: 13 May 2010 | 14:12:44 UTC - in response to Message 16996.

Great news, indeed! If you haven't done already, tell AMD that their help and hardware are greatly appreaciated in the world of BOINC :)

MrS

Even better point out that the more projects that run ATI applications that work decently, the more cards they will sell to this small, but intense market ... I know I am solidly in the ATI camp and am down to my last couple of Nvidia cards as we type/read ... and if they stay ahead of Nvidia will stay ATI for some time ...

I can see that some of the bigger ranchers have 20-30 systems and they tend to stick with the same cards if they can find one that works well ...

We are not a big as the gamers segment (yet), but 300,000 users world wide is not a trivial market to ignore either ...

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Message 17014 - Posted: 13 May 2010 | 23:01:28 UTC

I second ETAs comment. I also became a recent convert, after 15 years with NVidia ever since NVidia started on the consumer end of things. The ATI performance on the non BOINC tasks I do has been amazing, it far outweighs expectation let alone hard comparative performance figures. On the BOINC ATI Projects I am now running, it flys ....

Kicking myself I didnt make the move earlier end of last year, but we all live and learn I guess - I had let the last 15 years colour my judgement. I certainly add my lowly voice to the chorus of thanks to AMD for the assist, lets hope it remains over time, and is substantive not transient.

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Message 17016 - Posted: 14 May 2010 | 0:24:08 UTC - in response to Message 13655.
Last modified: 14 May 2010 | 0:24:39 UTC

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home



I only run the BOINC Projects, they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Really? Why is that?

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Message 17046 - Posted: 14 May 2010 | 17:44:53 UTC - in response to Message 17016.

poorboy
...I sure hope you get this going soon as Collatz & Milkyway are Complete Flops a lot of times like right now. Most of my ATI Cards are just sitting Idle & have been for quite awhile now because Collatz & Milkyway are down and may be down for ???


You could use them on Folding@home



I only run the BOINC Projects, they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Really? Why is that?


Their my Box's and I choose to Support the BOINC Projects only, that's enough reason for me ... :)

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Message 17081 - Posted: 16 May 2010 | 0:19:49 UTC - in response to Message 17046.

Reason enough for sure.

The reason I asked is that you seemed to have a particular animus towards Folding as indicated by your statement:

they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Folding seems like a worthwhile project to me so I was wondering if you had a bad experience or something?

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Message 17146 - Posted: 18 May 2010 | 21:13:37 UTC

just out of curiosity have you tested your openCL code on a CPU yet? AMD's opencl cpu compiler should be more mature and less buggy than their gpu compiler. it would also be a nice performance reference.

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Message 17196 - Posted: 21 May 2010 | 9:18:15 UTC - in response to Message 17081.

Reason enough for sure.

The reason I asked is that you seemed to have a particular animus towards Folding as indicated by your statement:

they'll sit Idle before I run Folding@home ...


Folding seems like a worthwhile project to me so I was wondering if you had a bad experience or something?


No, I've never had any dealings with Folding & from reading about it I'm sure it's a worthwhile project. But BOINC was what got me started (SETI Classic) & BOINC is what I will stay with. If Folding ever came under the BOINC Umbrella I would run it but until it does I won't a long as there are BOINC Projects around to run ...

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Message 17199 - Posted: 21 May 2010 | 11:11:05 UTC - in response to Message 17196.

I think Folding@home is a good project, and I have run a few hundred tasks there.
Their cutoff times are longer, so people that struggle to finish here, or use older cards might want to try folding. The GPU utilisation tends to be higher, so watch out for the heat.
My general opinion is that if the card cant work here it's not worth having, so I get rid of it, or just dont use it - it's down to project preferences, and I'm not interested in some sciences.

I think Folding just does protein folding, so it is different to this project; GPUGrid is unique in that it looks at super-structures (complexes of large molecules, such as lipid bylayer spanning pore proteins). Folding is more akin to Foldit in its research.

In so much as PoorBoy is loyal to Boinc, others are loyal to Folding. Perhaps if Folding and Boinc colaborated in terms of recognition (points/tasks/achievements) it would be more favourable, but Folding is a very big project, with hundreds of thousands of present crunchers.
They dont need you as much as GPUGrid does.

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Message 17216 - Posted: 22 May 2010 | 11:41:55 UTC

Would be nice if F@H introduced a BOINC wrapper, like e.g. yoyo@home. But their entire infrastructure is probably not very compatible with BOINC and they looked into it some time ago - and found it not be stable enough (or whatever other reason).

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Message 17225 - Posted: 22 May 2010 | 17:05:10 UTC - in response to Message 17216.

I agree with the wrapper for folding, the one for dnetc looks good. The fah client is not so user friendly in comparison with boinc. I stopped folding a month ago due to the poor optimization of the ati client, and also the reluctance to give feedback to the 'new client'. I'm using my ati cards for seti and collatz (the low-level ones).

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Message 17230 - Posted: 22 May 2010 | 23:43:16 UTC - in response to Message 17225.

It's a bit off topic, but ATI for SETI? I didn't hear about that heard yet. How's performance?

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Message 17235 - Posted: 23 May 2010 | 17:23:58 UTC - in response to Message 17230.

It's a bit off topic, but ATI for SETI? I didn't hear about that heard yet. How's performance?

MrS

Still in Beta and it is for the AP tasks only as far as I have been able to find out. Again, the preliminary reports are that it is somewhat like the EaH application in the it uses more CPU than most would like though that is supposedly falling as they have worked the code.

The main coders are on Lunatics and the beta is not a full open beta yet ...

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Message 17240 - Posted: 23 May 2010 | 22:42:43 UTC - in response to Message 17235.

It's a bit off topic, but ATI for SETI? I didn't hear about that heard yet. How's performance?

MrS

Still in Beta and it is for the AP tasks only as far as I have been able to find out. Again, the preliminary reports are that it is somewhat like the EaH application in the it uses more CPU than most would like though that is supposedly falling as they have worked the code.

The main coders are on Lunatics and the beta is not a full open beta yet ...

The hybrid version (for 2xxx and up) yes, still using too much CPU, like the EaH.
The OpenCL+Brook+ (for 4xxx and up) is using 98% GPU + ~5% CPU.

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Message 17248 - Posted: 24 May 2010 | 8:31:01 UTC

In so much as PoorBoy is loyal to Boinc, others are loyal to Folding. Perhaps if Folding and Boinc colaborated in terms of recognition (points/tasks/achievements) it would be more favourable, but Folding is a very big project, with hundreds of thousands of present crunchers.
They dont need you as much as GPUGrid does.


I may be wrong but it seem to me at one time Folding & BOINC tried to get together but never could Iron out the Details. From what I think I remember Folding wanted everything to much their way and the Deal never went thru ... Like I said I think I remember something like that taking place in the past ...
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Message 17477 - Posted: 31 May 2010 | 9:53:49 UTC - in response to Message 17248.

I have a 5750 ATI GPU running on linux, I would be happy to help with some testing if needed.

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Message 17683 - Posted: 21 Jun 2010 | 12:32:37 UTC

Any news on ATI cards yet? Did you get them working well? I have a couple 5970's I would like to use but...

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Message 17685 - Posted: 21 Jun 2010 | 19:13:21 UTC - in response to Message 17683.

Any news on ATI cards yet? Did you get them working well? I have a couple 5970's I would like to use but...


Yes, I cannot wait to help this project with my ATI.

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Message 17703 - Posted: 26 Jun 2010 | 5:37:15 UTC - in response to Message 17685.

Hmm, an update would be nice, it's been a few weeks since anything was said.

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Message 17706 - Posted: 26 Jun 2010 | 20:23:20 UTC - in response to Message 17703.

Rest assured that if there is no update, it's not there yet ;)
(of course it would be nice to know whether there was progress or not)

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Message 17745 - Posted: 29 Jun 2010 | 4:21:18 UTC - in response to Message 17706.

Is this a possible way of cutting corners to getting something to work for ATI GPU's? http://www.fixstars.com/en/solutions/opencl/compiler.html
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Message 17749 - Posted: 29 Jun 2010 | 8:42:50 UTC - in response to Message 17745.
Last modified: 29 Jun 2010 | 8:49:01 UTC

We are waiting for ATI to fix their compiler and libraries. There is no much we can do. Some new tests are in progress these days.

Looking at the progress we are moving, I would expect to be in a stable, production situation with a OPENCL ATI application for GPUGRID before the end of the year. Of course beta work will start several months before. Maybe even just after the summer. All depends on them.

If they do a good job, I would expect an ATI 5870 to be within a factor 2 slower or faster than a GTX480. I know that the two extremes are quite different, but remember that few months ago, an ATI 5850 was 10 times slower than a GTX275 with ACEMD...

gdf

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Message 17844 - Posted: 3 Jul 2010 | 6:38:17 UTC - in response to Message 17749.

Thank-you for the update. Good to read where developement is at and moving along...

M

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Message 17912 - Posted: 8 Jul 2010 | 10:47:17 UTC - in response to Message 17749.
Last modified: 8 Jul 2010 | 10:49:51 UTC

We are waiting for ATI to fix their compiler and libraries.
gdf

From this post http://oscarbg.blogspot.com/2010/07/ati-stream-sdk-roadmap.html are you going to send some beta test in aug?

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Message 17913 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010 | 8:40:33 UTC

Hi,
I really don't want to bother anyone, but I don't understand the troubles, that araise in this project. So let me please ask one question:
Seti has working apps for cuda and cal
Milkiway has apps for cuda and cal
collaz conjectur has apps for cuda and cal
einstein has apps for cuda
and they all work with my old gtx260/ATI-GPU's, some of them with my 250-GPU.
I understand, that the 260-192 has (build-in)troubles, but all ATI-cards work without any problem in all related projects.
Are these apps producing wrong results?

I'm not so happy to cruch for the search for numbers (collatz) and I'm waiting for a more intresting project (that may help more people than a handful of math freaks), that use my gpu's. Doesn't it make sense to try to connect the programmers of these project, just to exchange experience? They should have the same problems and they seem to have a solution.
Well, I'm not in the process of developing these apps, so my thoughts may be completely wrong. If so, then please forget my question.

Regards,
Alexander

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Message 17914 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010 | 10:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 17913.

CAL is the old programming model. It is deprecated. If you have an old application it makes sense to use it still, for a new one, it's better to wait for OpenCL.


gdf

Hi,
I really don't want to bother anyone, but I don't understand the troubles, that araise in this project. So let me please ask one question:
Seti has working apps for cuda and cal
Milkiway has apps for cuda and cal
collaz conjectur has apps for cuda and cal
einstein has apps for cuda
and they all work with my old gtx260/ATI-GPU's, some of them with my 250-GPU.
I understand, that the 260-192 has (build-in)troubles, but all ATI-cards work without any problem in all related projects.
Are these apps producing wrong results?

I'm not so happy to cruch for the search for numbers (collatz) and I'm waiting for a more intresting project (that may help more people than a handful of math freaks), that use my gpu's. Doesn't it make sense to try to connect the programmers of these project, just to exchange experience? They should have the same problems and they seem to have a solution.
Well, I'm not in the process of developing these apps, so my thoughts may be completely wrong. If so, then please forget my question.

Regards,
Alexander

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Message 17918 - Posted: 10 Jul 2010 | 20:03:25 UTC

If there will ever be an ATi support for GPUGrid, will double precision be required for the card? In other words, will I be able to run GPUGrid on 5770s?

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Message 17919 - Posted: 10 Jul 2010 | 20:33:17 UTC - in response to Message 17918.

I dont think double precision is on the cards (it is not needed now), but that does not mean that a 5770 would not work. If ATI GPUs do eventually work here, that card should be a good one.

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Message 17921 - Posted: 10 Jul 2010 | 22:43:59 UTC - in response to Message 17919.

Hi,

We'll probably be in a position to start testing of an ATI application after SDK 2.2 is released in a month or so. It will require a 5800-series card initially.

MJH

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Message 17924 - Posted: 11 Jul 2010 | 13:39:01 UTC

@MJH: may I ask why? To keep things as simple as possible initially or is there any important technical difference for GPU-Grid between e.g. HD58x0 and HD57x0?

@Werkstatt: I'd put it this way: imagine some guy compiling a "hello world" program in C++. Now there's another guy who's trying to build the perfect operating system. He may also be using C++, but can not get it quite as bug free and stable within a finite development time.

It's not that the other projects would be trivial (*), but they're using different functions, libraries and API calls. Apart from the fact that they're using a different API these differences in the code alone would be enough so that you can not simply say "Just do the same stuff the others did and it should work". Well, it probably would work, but it wouldn't be doing any GPU-Grid science ;)

Are these apps producing wrong results?


That's not the point (and is probably not the case). For GPU-Grid the problem is that using the current SDK the app is not stable. And if I understand correctly the problems have been traced down to API calls (functionality provided by ATI), so it's up to them to fix it.

MrS

(*) the code of CC and MW is not very complex, but certainly not trivial either
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Message 17928 - Posted: 11 Jul 2010 | 22:01:01 UTC - in response to Message 17924.


may I ask why? To keep things as simple as possible initially or is there any important technical difference for GPU-Grid between e.g. HD58x0 and HD57x0?


The 58x0 is what we work with here. A 57x0 app may follow, probably, if all goes well and they prove to be fast enough. Lower 5xxx series cards will definitely be too slow to be useful. And the 4xxx is right out.

MJH

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Message 17929 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010 | 6:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 17924.

Hi,

thank's to your and GDF's efford to explain, whats going on.

[quote}
Well, it probably would work, but it wouldn't be doing any GPU-Grid science ;)
[/quote]
I really like these words! Yes of course, beside the results in the project itself there should be a progress in gpu-computing as well!

I am looking forward to the first apps for my 5830 and maybe also sometimes for my old GTX260 too ...

Regards,
Alexander

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Message 17933 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010 | 13:25:26 UTC - in response to Message 17928.

[quote]
And the 4xxx is right out.

MJH

Why? The 4850, 4870, 4890 & 4770 are generally faster than the 57xx and support DP to boot. The 57xx does not.

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Message 17934 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010 | 14:04:40 UTC - in response to Message 17933.

Why?


The design of the R700 processor used in the 4xxx series cards prevents the complete implementation of some features of OpenCL that are of critical importance for our application. (It's yesterday's technology, sorry!)

MJH

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Message 17936 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010 | 17:00:14 UTC - in response to Message 17934.
Last modified: 12 Jul 2010 | 17:01:06 UTC

Why?


The design of the R700 processor used in the 4xxx series cards prevents the complete implementation of some features of OpenCL that are of critical importance for our application. (It's yesterday's technology, sorry!)

MJH


5xxx series has OpenCL 1.1 support. If you can get the 57xx series to work, at least you aren't going for DP :) .

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Message 17938 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010 | 22:00:28 UTC

GPU-Grid doesn't need DP and this is hopefully not going to change anytime soon. At least one important difference between the 4000 and 5000 series is flexibility in memory management, if I understood correctly.

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Message 17972 - Posted: 15 Jul 2010 | 1:19:23 UTC

i guess you could say that. local data share on rv770 was too restricted to meet opencl requirements.

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Message 18264 - Posted: 7 Aug 2010 | 7:16:28 UTC
Last modified: 7 Aug 2010 | 7:17:22 UTC

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/OpenCL11ATICat107UpdateDriver.aspx
Can someone confirm that Cat 10.7b with ATI Stream SDK 2.2 has support for OpenCL 1.1 for 4xxx series?

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Message 18302 - Posted: 9 Aug 2010 | 15:41:22 UTC - in response to Message 18264.

Does this mean that the new SDK is available and testing of the ATI-apps is going on?
I have 2992 ATI GFLOPS currently crunching mainly for milkyway and I would assign some of them to GPUGRID.

Regards,
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Message 18303 - Posted: 9 Aug 2010 | 16:13:20 UTC - in response to Message 18302.

Perhaps the scientists will have another look at ATI cards in September or October, but they have a lot to do; optimize the GTX460, and forthcoming GTX475, try to get working apps for the GTS450, GTS445 and GTS440 (due out on the 12th), as well as the GF108 cards, also due out soon.

Last I heard they were perhaps about 50% of where they wanted to be WRT performance, but there were still bugs in the ATI code, that would require fixing before they could progress. If ATI have fixed their compiler and libraries then I would expect GPUGrid would be keen to restart work on an ATI application quite soon after the summer holidays.

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Message 18310 - Posted: 9 Aug 2010 | 18:50:11 UTC - in response to Message 18303.

Thank you for the update.

Alexander

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Message 18313 - Posted: 9 Aug 2010 | 21:12:29 UTC - in response to Message 18310.

ATI 2.2 fixes most serious bugs and we will probably put out a test application for ATI. The performance is still poor for several reasons. ATI on one side and us on the other, will work to make it faster. Most likely, SDK 2.3 could be a better release performance wise, now that bugs are under controls.

gdf

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Message 18315 - Posted: 10 Aug 2010 | 9:01:49 UTC - in response to Message 18313.

ATI 2.2 fixes most serious bugs and we will probably put out a test application for ATI.
gdf


I've set my mainsys (with two ATI-cards) to accept GPUGRID wu's. If something more to do is required, I expect instructions somwhere.

Regards,

Alexander

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Message 18328 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 4:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 18313.

ATI 2.2 fixes most serious bugs and we will probably put out a test application for ATI. The performance is still poor for several reasons. ATI on one side and us on the other, will work to make it faster. Most likely, SDK 2.3 could be a better release performance wise, now that bugs are under controls.

gdf


I have a 5870..do you still plan on doing a beta release the end of summer or is it sooner?

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Message 18329 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 6:49:02 UTC - in response to Message 18328.

sdk 2.2 out...

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Message 18330 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 11:16:51 UTC - in response to Message 18329.

I think the researchers are down to a skeleton team during the summer holidays; enough staff to keep the tasks flowing, but little or no development work gets done.

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Message 18348 - Posted: 14 Aug 2010 | 19:16:27 UTC - in response to Message 18330.

I think the researchers are down to a skeleton team during the summer holidays


Yep! Can't be wearing the white coats every day of the year...


MJH

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Message 18655 - Posted: 13 Sep 2010 | 13:29:35 UTC

Hey.

Any progress in the work?

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Message 18724 - Posted: 20 Sep 2010 | 14:40:55 UTC - in response to Message 18655.

Yes,
we just presented the first results at a conference in USA.
I'll post it soon.

As I said before, probably there will be a beta release in Autumn and a production application from SDK2.3.

Performance of a top ati card however is 3 times slower than a fermi at the moment but at least it runs. We hope that with 2.3 will get better.

gdf

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Message 18725 - Posted: 20 Sep 2010 | 20:20:53 UTC

Thanks for the info.

I'm glad, that finally will work on ati. Let us hope, the performance will be better in future. :)

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Message 18738 - Posted: 21 Sep 2010 | 20:30:01 UTC

Gosh, I came back to see if there was something new in here, but that wasn't the case :)
Well, somebody please wake me up from my cold slumber once a finalized app for ATI is out...perhaps by then, my short lived 5870 will come back from RMA :D

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Message 18743 - Posted: 22 Sep 2010 | 3:38:47 UTC - in response to Message 18724.

Performance of a top ati card however is 3 times slower than a fermi at the moment but at least it runs.


Yay! I'll take it, back to basics. First make something work, then fine tune the process.

At any rate my 5870 will accept beta work units, if/when some are issued. It's been crunching a long time now, and curious about GPUgrid.

M.

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Message 18746 - Posted: 22 Sep 2010 | 14:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 18743.

[quote
At any rate my 5870 will accept beta work units, if/when some are issued. It's been crunching a long time now, and curious about GPUgrid.

M.[/quote]

+1

Alexander

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Message 18751 - Posted: 22 Sep 2010 | 17:59:04 UTC - in response to Message 13540.

From Paladin*:

PS: As a side note Subscribing to a Thread is Pointless for me as I never receive a Notice by E-Mail even though I have my Preferences set to do so ... ???


Some of the ISPs in Germany are using a rather obsolete list of which other ISPs to block email access to - for example, it includes mine, whose outsourced newsgroups server USED to be a common posting point for newsgroups spam. In the years since then, it brought the newsgroups server in house with a newsgroups person more active in controlling spam, then was acquired by another ISP and dropped newsgroups entirely.

You may want to check if whatever ISP you have your email account on is on one of those obsolete lists.

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Message 18752 - Posted: 22 Sep 2010 | 18:07:41 UTC - in response to Message 17199.
Last modified: 22 Sep 2010 | 18:14:21 UTC

From skgiven:

I think Folding just does protein folding, so it is different to this project; GPUGrid is unique in that it looks at super-structures (complexes of large molecules, such as lipid bylayer spanning pore proteins). Folding is more akin to Foldit in its research.


For those interested in protein research: Poem@Home is starting testing of GPU versions of their program, for both Nvidia and ATI cards. Name is POEM++; current version is 0.01.

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Message 18785 - Posted: 29 Sep 2010 | 20:18:12 UTC - in response to Message 18752.

For those interested in protein research: Poem@Home is starting testing of GPU versions of their program, for both Nvidia and ATI cards. Name is POEM++; current version is 0.01.


Poem@Home currently only has POEM++ CPU clients out. Once they are convinced that these are stable they will start rolling out the GPU clients. Current estimate is that this will happen in a month or so.

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Message 18953 - Posted: 17 Oct 2010 | 18:20:03 UTC - in response to Message 18785.

Any progres?
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Message 18964 - Posted: 18 Oct 2010 | 12:57:58 UTC - in response to Message 18953.

Yes, the level of stability is still not sufficient for the use in GPUGRID.
We waiting for the SDK2.3 and in the meanwhile optimizing the software.

gdf

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Message 18973 - Posted: 19 Oct 2010 | 12:15:42 UTC - in response to Message 18964.

Good News :)

Regards
Zy

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Message 19001 - Posted: 22 Oct 2010 | 3:04:06 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2010 | 3:11:59 UTC

An idea on how to produce a GPUGRID version for the AMD/ATI HD4nnn family, once you get suitable software support:

See if you can divide the tasks between upper level processors which can reach all of the graphics card's memory, and lower level processors which can't. Tell the lower level processors to do most of the calculations, but send their requests for access to memory they can't reach to the upper level processors.

Note - I'm NOT familiar enough with the AMD/ATI GPU architectures to tell if this is possible, or even what you've already tried.

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Message 19004 - Posted: 22 Oct 2010 | 9:43:42 UTC - in response to Message 18964.
Last modified: 22 Oct 2010 | 9:44:19 UTC

Sorry for asking again, but are you going to reguire single or double precision for ATI client?
Just read that they killed FP64 in 6850/6870
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/amds-radeon-6870-6850-renewing-competition-in-the-midrange-market/2

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Message 19008 - Posted: 22 Oct 2010 | 15:26:17 UTC - in response to Message 19004.

I dont know of any reason to require double precision for here, so only single precision would be required.

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Message 19012 - Posted: 22 Oct 2010 | 20:20:41 UTC - in response to Message 19008.

I dont know of any reason to require double precision for here, so only single precision would be required.


Agreed. Otherwise almost none of the nVidias would work here, or would have trouble keeping up with CPUs :p

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Message 19016 - Posted: 23 Oct 2010 | 1:25:38 UTC

what's up?

when should ATi begin?

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Message 19019 - Posted: 23 Oct 2010 | 18:52:41 UTC - in response to Message 19016.

what's up?


Sit back, relax and don't expect anything too soon.

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Message 19032 - Posted: 25 Oct 2010 | 9:54:23 UTC - in response to Message 19019.

The 2.2 SDK is still a bit too ropey. We're deferring any public app until 2.3 is available.

MJH

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Message 19073 - Posted: 27 Oct 2010 | 19:21:59 UTC - in response to Message 19032.

Have AMD given any kind of Indicative timeframe for 2.3? They'll never give a date, thats for sure, but they do at times give a vague Q1/Q2 etc kind of response.

Regards
Zy

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Message 19074 - Posted: 27 Oct 2010 | 19:47:31 UTC - in response to Message 19073.

it should be before the end of the year I guess.
gdf

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Message 19075 - Posted: 27 Oct 2010 | 19:48:25 UTC - in response to Message 19073.

Dec-2010

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Message 19083 - Posted: 28 Oct 2010 | 22:14:36 UTC - in response to Message 19075.

Also, we want to see what's new in the 69xx series...

MJH

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Message 19091 - Posted: 29 Oct 2010 | 7:39:16 UTC - in response to Message 19083.

/me 2

Sadly that's not something GDF can influence.. and if he knew about it, he wouldn't be allowed to tell us ;)

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Message 19155 - Posted: 31 Oct 2010 | 22:46:55 UTC - in response to Message 19091.

Some month back, a few people from the Lunatics Crew, made several app.'s
for computing AstroPulse tasks and later MultiBeem, too. A CUDA version is already working for G80, G92 & G100 ands later GPU's.
I used the 2.1 SDK, it worked, but took awhile to get a decent GPU troughput, like =>50% or better.(On my 480 GPUgrid uses 50%) Einstein less then 5%! SETI 96%
Have a rig with an EAH4850 and a EAH5870, which is about 3 times faster.(Collatz C.,MW and DNETC)



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Message 19158 - Posted: 31 Oct 2010 | 23:38:35 UTC - in response to Message 19155.

If you set the environment variable SWAN_SYNC=0, in most tasks the use is around 97% in GTX480 in GPUGRID.

Some month back, a few people from the Lunatics Crew, made several app.'s
for computing AstroPulse tasks and later MultiBeem, too. A CUDA version is already working for G80, G92 & G100 ands later GPU's.
I used the 2.1 SDK, it worked, but took awhile to get a decent GPU troughput, like =>50% or better.(On my 480 GPUgrid uses 50%) Einstein less then 5%! SETI 96%
Have a rig with an EAH4850 and a EAH5870, which is about 3 times faster.(Collatz C.,MW and DNETC)



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Message 19201 - Posted: 2 Nov 2010 | 21:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 19158.
Last modified: 2 Nov 2010 | 21:56:52 UTC

If you set the environment variable SWAN_SYNC=0, in most tasks the use is around 97% in GTX480 in GPUGRID.


A command line parameter? I'm not very skilled in programming. More hardware.
(Old fashioned tubes(!)/transistor/mosFET/(Amstrad CPC128, first PC, BASIC & CPM1.1)(Nice)
But one is never too old to learn :)
Where do I put this? BOINC (Program)dir?
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Message 19202 - Posted: 2 Nov 2010 | 22:14:14 UTC - in response to Message 19201.

http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=2123

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Message 19405 - Posted: 10 Nov 2010 | 9:16:45 UTC - in response to Message 19158.

For me, SWAN_SYNC increases GPU usage from 62% or so to 67% (Win 7 64 bit)

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Message 19406 - Posted: 10 Nov 2010 | 9:19:14 UTC - in response to Message 19405.

For me, SWAN_SYNC increases GPU usage from 62% or so to 67% (Win 7 64 bit)



The problem is Windows 7. Xp and Linux give the best performance.

gdf

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Message 19466 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 14:45:31 UTC - in response to Message 19406.

I'm pleased to announce that www.boinc.Drugdiscovery@home.com now has a working beta of a ati_opencl of MDRUN, it has been tested on a 5700 ati, a 2600 xt, as well the developers computer.
____________

I recommend Secunia PSI: http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/

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Message 19468 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 16:59:06 UTC - in response to Message 19466.

I'm pleased to announce that www.boinc.Drugdiscovery@home.com now has a working beta of a ati_opencl of MDRUN, it has been tested on a 5700 ati, a 2600 xt, as well the developers computer.

Are you sure opencl is running on 2600?
How long are the WUs on the 2600?

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Message 19470 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 17:49:29 UTC - in response to Message 19468.
Last modified: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:00:00 UTC

yes, i'm sure it's running on the 2600 xt... it's my computer...

OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\cygintl-8.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\cygreadline6.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\cygwin1.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\libfftw3f-3.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\msvcp100.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\msvcr100.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\OpenMM.dll
OpenMM Loads Library - C:\0\OpenMMOpenCL.dll
Successfully loaded plugin cygwin1.dll
Successfully loaded plugin libfftw3f-3.dll
Successfully loaded plugin msvcp100.dll
Successfully loaded plugin msvcr100.dll
Successfully loaded plugin OpenMM.dll
Successfully loaded plugin OpenMMOpenCL.dll
OpenMM Platform: OpenCL
OpenCLDeviceIndex: 0
starting mdrun 'Protein in water'
100500 steps, 201.0 ps (continuing from step 100000, 200.0 ps).


and to answer your 2nd question... the ancient card the 2600 xt... will take forever it's been running since 9 am and it's still running and it's almost 1 pm.... but its trying to simulate 1 Nano second.

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Message 19471 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:06:58 UTC - in response to Message 19468.

Looks like they are just testing, and have no work at the minute.
http://boinc.drugdiscoveryathome.com/
http://hydrogenathome.org/

I expect they will attract many ATI card users when they are up and running. I think DD will be the first Biological research for ATI cards via Boinc.

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Message 19473 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 19470.
Last modified: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:15:41 UTC

yes, i'm sure it's running on the 2600 xt... it's my computer...

If you go here, https://simtk.org/project/xml/downloads.xml?group_id=161 it will redirect to amd gpu page, which has support for opencl only gor 4xxx and up.
On the 2600 card, is it going to take around 20h for the WU described?

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Message 19475 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:47:28 UTC - in response to Message 19473.
Last modified: 14 Nov 2010 | 18:56:06 UTC

yes, i'm sure it's running on the 2600 xt... it's my computer...

If you go here, https://simtk.org/project/xml/downloads.xml?group_id=161 it will redirect to amd gpu page, which has support for opencl only gor 4xxx and up.
On the 2600 card, is it going to take around 20h for the WU described?



I know, i'm not the developer, if he made it compatible with older cards, then so be it, progress.... you should be congratulating us instead of criticizing it... ati may only support 4300 and up but we know the true reason for that.... ( They want to MAKE MONEY ON THE CARDS!!!!!)

but the truth it is opencl is compatible with the 2600 xt, my card running it proves it...


We know that our research, will take sometime... that's why we've been wanting to go to gpu apps as they are much faster than the single cpu...

and well have cuda to go along with ati.

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Message 19480 - Posted: 14 Nov 2010 | 20:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 19475.

hello, me again!!!!

I have to admit... i was wrong... OpenCL will not run on a 2600 XT ati Card......

after going to pc wizard and looking PC activity and gpu temp. and Opencl line. i have come to the realization.

inserts foot into mouth and naws on foot.

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Message 19483 - Posted: 15 Nov 2010 | 9:20:20 UTC - in response to Message 19480.

I guess it was running on the CPU instead?

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Message 19488 - Posted: 15 Nov 2010 | 17:45:42 UTC - in response to Message 19483.

but on jack computer it runs on the ati card...

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Message 19533 - Posted: 17 Nov 2010 | 20:16:47 UTC - in response to Message 19488.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know who Jack is.

I just know you said you were 100% sure it worked and then said it didn't. So I assumed you actually saw the machine with the HD2600 running such a WU. Which would actually be quite possible, since openCL can in principle run on anything as long as there's a driver mediating between the hardware and openCL. The first devices on which openCL was run were CPUs.

That's why I could imagine you saw that WU running, but openCL had determined the CPU as the only appropriate computing device and was using that one instead of the HD2600.

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Message 19574 - Posted: 20 Nov 2010 | 19:24:06 UTC - in response to Message 19533.

yea you kinda got that right.... Jack is the Main admin on the DD@H and the Developer of Hydrogen....

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Message 19860 - Posted: 11 Dec 2010 | 10:14:39 UTC

I have accept Beta work and it comes no Work

I use 2 ATI 5870 with the newest Driver and the Stream SDK 2.2

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Message 19868 - Posted: 11 Dec 2010 | 14:19:19 UTC - in response to Message 19860.

There are no tasks for ATI cards, and as far as I am aware no immediate plans to use ATI cards.

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Message 19871 - Posted: 11 Dec 2010 | 17:06:33 UTC - in response to Message 19868.

We are waiting for SDK2.3.

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Message 19876 - Posted: 12 Dec 2010 | 13:25:44 UTC - in response to Message 13411.

If you have a new 5870 ATI GPUs please accept beta work from us, in the following days we will try to upload a new ATI application.

gdf


Hi,

I am still waiting. Can I hope to get the bata in this year?

woever

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Message 19877 - Posted: 12 Dec 2010 | 14:12:23 UTC - in response to Message 19876.

ATI's roadmap suggests they will release SDK2.3 this month.
Even if ATI are on target, I don't think the researchers will want to spend their holiday period debugging test apps. My guess is that it will be next year before any Beta's are released.

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Message 19888 - Posted: 13 Dec 2010 | 20:07:55 UTC - in response to Message 19877.

well....hmmm..it's out :)

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Message 19892 - Posted: 13 Dec 2010 | 22:15:50 UTC - in response to Message 19889.

well....hmmm..it's out :)

It's out?
developer.amd.com has still 2.2 ready for download.
Anyway, maybe we get a christmas present ...

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Message 19897 - Posted: 14 Dec 2010 | 0:45:28 UTC

SDK2.3 is in the new Driver Pack 10.12

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Message 19907 - Posted: 14 Dec 2010 | 16:54:56 UTC - in response to Message 19897.

Looks like 10.2 turned up yesterday (13th Dec).

The researchers may still want to wait until after the holiday period before beginning internal testing, and there is no guarantee they will be successful any time soon. They have to get it to work first and then optimize it to a reasonable level. I see little point in rushing an application into test release only to disappoint lots of ATI users, especially at this time of year.
If and when they are ready to go to Beta they will make the very welcome announcement.

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Message 19908 - Posted: 14 Dec 2010 | 17:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 19907.

No,
nothing until end of January but then we plan to release several things.
In the meanwhile, we can keep updating here on the performance.

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Message 19911 - Posted: 14 Dec 2010 | 18:50:07 UTC - in response to Message 19908.

Yeah SDK 2.3 has been released.
http://www.geeks3d.com/20101213/opencl-ati-stream-sdk-v2-3-and-image-convolution-optimization-techniques/

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Message 19929 - Posted: 15 Dec 2010 | 15:13:01 UTC - in response to Message 19911.
Last modified: 15 Dec 2010 | 15:13:19 UTC

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/12/14/look-amds-new-cayman6900-architecture/

The new AMD cards seem much better for compute.

gdf

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Message 19984 - Posted: 17 Dec 2010 | 23:15:52 UTC - in response to Message 19929.

I especially like the new feature "asynchronous dispatch". It lets different apps be executed on the GPU at the same time. Fermi only allows different kernels from the same app. This could help with GPU utilisation, if the problem is using more Multiprocessors, or if the GPU is not used all the time. And it could make crunching GPUs more responsive, which is always welcome. Might even help with the CPU support / synchronization issues we're seeing at GPU-Grid now. By that I mean the CPU is not acting fast enough to keep the GPU busy - which would be much easier if the GPU was working on 2 WUs concurrently and with half a step phase difference. That way there'd be a rather large buffer or time window until the next CPU support would be required.

The feature needs OpenCL, though.

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Message 19995 - Posted: 19 Dec 2010 | 1:09:58 UTC - in response to Message 19984.
Last modified: 19 Dec 2010 | 1:11:06 UTC

I especially like the new feature "asynchronous dispatch". It lets different apps be executed on the GPU at the same time. Fermi only allows different kernels from the same app. This could help with GPU utilisation, if the problem is using more Multiprocessors, or if the GPU is not used all the time. And it could make crunching GPUs more responsive, which is always welcome. Might even help with the CPU support / synchronization issues we're seeing at GPU-Grid now. By that I mean the CPU is not acting fast enough to keep the GPU busy - which would be much easier if the GPU was working on 2 WUs concurrently and with half a step phase difference. That way there'd be a rather large buffer or time window until the next CPU support would be required.



WOW, that feature alone is peaking my interest in GPU coding. I imagine this a result of AMD's Fusion direction.

More reading to do...

M.

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Message 20009 - Posted: 23 Dec 2010 | 2:23:38 UTC

From Extra Terrestrial Apes:

The feature needs OpenCL, though
---

Looks like time to ask the BOINC to provide one of two possible new features, whichever one they'd prefer:

1. Add an OpenCL interface to BOINC.

2. Allow workunits to tell BOINC to reserve a GPU for them, then turn loose of that GPU in all other ways until the workunit finishes. The application program would then have to contain all the code needed for interfacing to that GPU, but at least that would be better than not being able to use it at all in the desired fashion.

Another idea to consider: Provide workunits with two independent parts taking about as much time each. On Fermi processors, use the new feature to run one a while, then while the other one is running, do the CPU interfacing for the first one. On older processors, run one after the other instead.

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Message 20012 - Posted: 23 Dec 2010 | 11:21:04 UTC - in response to Message 20009.
Last modified: 23 Dec 2010 | 11:24:31 UTC

Boinc Projects are going to want to facilitate Open-CL:

The forthcoming Sandy Bridge contains 6 or 12 integrated Execution Units (an on-die GPU). These 32nm processors will replace the mainstream LGA 1155 i7’s, i5’s and i3’s. While they are unlikely to be useful to GPUGrid for GPU tasks, other projects such as Einstein might be able to utilize them to good effect, and I expect some big projects will use Open-CL in order to employ these CPU’s more fully. Intel have doubled the SSE data path and introduced Advanced Vector eXtensions (AVX), an advanced SSE.

Open-CL is knocking at the door.

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Message 20067 - Posted: 29 Dec 2010 | 7:56:13 UTC

So the beta for ATi cards is expected some time within January?
I'm really looking forward to it.

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Message 20119 - Posted: 5 Jan 2011 | 18:39:07 UTC

Anny news for beta for ATi cards ?

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Message 20122 - Posted: 5 Jan 2011 | 21:01:44 UTC

excuse me if this has already been answered. Or if I should know better. But, i need a bit of help here.

Just installed a Radeon ATI HD 5570 GPU on my husband's computer (Intel Pentium dual cpu E2160). Increased the Windows experience rating from 3.8 to 5.9 immediately. Boinc says for ATI 5500 series GPU's you need to have driver V8.12. Windows vista went on the web and found ATI HD 5500 driver V8.791. So, I installed it. Next, when I installed the driver that came with the graphic card, it went to V8.77. Whatever :-| When *that* updated itself, it went to driver V8.791, then again to V8.8 when I installed what they call, "Catalyst Control".

HOWEVER - - When starting up Boinc V6.10.58, it gives a message "No usable GPU's found".

I like the 5570. It was cheap ($69.99), fits our Dell 530s SLIM profile case, however occupying the only single PCI X16 slot on the MB (the other three are PCI1, PCI2, and PCIX). It is passive (no fan - no noise)with massive heat fins on both sides of the card (and over the top - still fitting the SLIM profile case), and has a nifty utility for panning across multiple displays http://ati.amd.com

The stock Dell 530s has only a 250 watt PSU, but I have been assured (on another forum) that it will work OK. So far so good!

Two HIS Radeon ATI HD 5570's can be installed on a MB with two PCI X16 slots if you have them; but for that a 400 Watt PSU is recommended by ATI. Then, it lets you run, what they call, "Crossfire Mode" which, I suppose really zooms it up.

Did I say, - - When starting up Boinc V6.10.58, it gives a message "No usable GPU's found".

Am I barking up the wrong tree?


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Message 20134 - Posted: 7 Jan 2011 | 8:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 20122.

then again to V8.8 when I installed what they call, "Catalyst Control".

HOWEVER - - When starting up Boinc V6.10.58, it gives a message "No usable GPU's found".

Is that the only graphic card in your PC or is there also an on-board card? AMD (unlike nVidia) needs a monitor plugged in (or a dummy-plug) to be detected by BOINC.

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Message 20137 - Posted: 7 Jan 2011 | 13:33:28 UTC - in response to Message 20122.

Boudicca, ATI cards do not presently work on this project (GPUGrid), hence the message, "No usable GPU's found".

Try Folding@home if you want to run a molecular folding project; they also do useful science.

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Message 20145 - Posted: 9 Jan 2011 | 2:24:15 UTC

Boudicca,

You may want to determine which model of HD 5570 card that is, find it on this list and click on that model name , then click on Details on the resulting page to get a page including more accurate information about what rating of power supply is needed. For example, if you scroll down in the details for the first model on the list, you'll see that it needs at least a 400 watt power supply (possibly less if the rest of the computer is on a separate power supply).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=HD+5570&x=11&y=25

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Message 20167 - Posted: 15 Jan 2011 | 15:16:38 UTC - in response to Message 20145.

Boudicca,

you must not install BOINC in "protected mode" in order to use GPUs. It's an option during installation which is active by default. Reinstall 6.10.58 (to the same paths, so you can keep all your configuration files and WUs), look for this option and deactivate it.
Regarding the driver: just go to amd.com and get the latest from there.

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Message 20181 - Posted: 18 Jan 2011 | 3:17:38 UTC

SDK 2.3 is out, some news about AMD app?

i would really love to use my 5870 + 6970 for bio crunching ...
these mathematical and astro projects are boring -.-

and its okay if the app is 2-3 times slower, i would do it for science, not for credits and i think many AMD cruncher think the same way...


greetings

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Message 20182 - Posted: 18 Jan 2011 | 10:11:10 UTC - in response to Message 20181.

There has been continuous speculation as to when ATI cards would be facilitated by this project. While another SDK has been released and the programmers might be working on this or at least planning to, it would be wise to accept that so far there have been lots of disappointments and false dawns. I don’t want to get anyone’s hope up on the ATI front because of this, but I also understand some of the hardware requirements might not be in place to support such an addition to the project. Also note that if ATI cards are supported at some stage, the initial phase of their introduction would be bumpy with lots of testing, problems and periods of inactivity. So don’t think someone can just flick a switch and suddenly GPUGrid will support ATI cards.

Over the last year and a half I replaced my ATI cards with NVidia cards, to support this project. While I can’t see many people leaving the mature NVidia apps for infant ATI apps, I agree there is a lack of Biological and Medical GPU projects for ATI crunchers and respect that many would be happy to crunch here even at 30 to 50% the performance of an NVidia card. However, the problem is not just development; it is implementation, maintenance and support and these things require funding, equipment, space, time and staff.

So while I look forward to having at least one ATI card in the future, it's likely to be at least a year before I fork out on one, and I do have a GTX260 and several GT240's that could be replaced should something come along.

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Message 20197 - Posted: 20 Jan 2011 | 19:00:49 UTC - in response to Message 20182.

SDK2.3 is still unstable unfortunately. I am getting a bit tired of this level of software support from ATI.

gdf

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Message 20203 - Posted: 20 Jan 2011 | 23:11:53 UTC - in response to Message 20197.

SDK2.3 is still unstable unfortunately. I am getting a bit tired of this level of software support from ATI.

gdf

could you please share the problems you found with the community? I think that many of us would like to read something about the problems you are finding and how you're tackling them.
May I also say that maybe some problems rely on your side? I'm reading many positive comments about SDK 2.2 and 2.3... Surely a lot of work is still required for optimization, but an app should be working by now!

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Message 20204 - Posted: 20 Jan 2011 | 23:40:59 UTC - in response to Message 20203.
Last modified: 20 Jan 2011 | 23:46:39 UTC

I’m not in the least surprised to hear that ATI support is insufficient, and I seriously doubt the merits of perusing an ATI application suitable to the complexities of this projects research. I suggest you concentrate on CUDA for the foreseeable future; I know of several aspects to the present CUDA apps that could do with your attention (I spoke too soon, being addressed here). If an ATI app is not going to happen, put it to rest and let it be. Some projects have spent over a year trying to test and develop ATI apps only to find it is impossible/worthless.

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Message 20207 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 1:51:01 UTC

to let the AMD-app die, is not a good choice!
the developers said, an AMD-app is possible, only the background driver is instable
so, if the app will work in future, you can (at least) double the amount of results ... there are so much people which have ATI/AMD cards only to make millions of credits per day and what is their result? they prove if a mathematical theory is right or wrong ...

imagine the millions of Watts (Energy) which are useless wasted, this energy could be used to heal people, to take away the pain of so much people

i agree with cenit, please tell us the problems, maybe someone has a solution ... a little patch can help millions of people...

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Message 20213 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 13:13:46 UTC - in response to Message 20204.
Last modified: 21 Jan 2011 | 13:17:21 UTC

I’m not in the least surprised to hear that ATI support is insufficient, and I seriously doubt the merits of perusing an ATI application suitable to the complexities of this projects research. [..] Some projects have spent over a year trying to test and develop ATI apps only to find it is impossible/worthless.


Looks like a real fan-boy speaking...

Is ATI only a mathematical GPU???

By the way: Why not using external support? there are excellent examples in the history of grid-computing:

Akatosh: Einstein@Home
ClusterPhysik(Gipsel): Milkyway/Collatz

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Message 20214 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 13:39:01 UTC - in response to Message 20213.

Looks like a real fan-boy speaking...

I expect you came to that conclusion by reading one post.

Is ATI only a mathematical GPU???

You answered yourself,
Akatosh: Einstein@Home
ClusterPhysik(Gipsel): Milkyway/Collatz


By the way: Why not using external support? there are excellent examples in the history of grid-computing

Funds and expert ATI OpenCL programmers familiar with molecular dynamics don’t grow on trees.
Might have been an excellent example if it came with a link, but I doubt it; MW, Collatz and Einstein dont run molecular dynamic simulations, their apps are more simplistic and very different.

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Message 20216 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 16:33:31 UTC - in response to Message 20214.

We have done our bit, it's just them that have to produce a working SDK. We have filed so many bug reports in the process.
We will keep the possibility to run ATI,a lot of effort has been put it to get there with large structural changes.
The last attempt we have planned to do is to see if Windows is more stable than Linux. All our tests were on Linux so far.
ATI gpus are quite good, especially the latest generation. So hopefully we should be able to run on them.

gdf

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Message 20217 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 17:33:47 UTC - in response to Message 20214.

MW, Collatz and Einstein dont run molecular dynamic simulations, their apps are more simplistic and very different.


Yes of course, you are right. But one word to MW/Collatz: both projects have Cuda and ATI apps. They are simpler for both types, nVidia AND Ati, but both apps are faster on ATI and use much less power also.

So don't let the ATI-apps die!

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Message 20219 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 19:25:13 UTC - in response to Message 20217.

It’s easier to write simple apps and if ATI doesn’t adequately support the creation of more complex apps then its better to wait for the next SDK than to continue to debug and report endless errors, knowing that they will not be fixed until the next SDK, if at all.

I don’t know of another Boinc project that manipulates large molecules.
Perhaps there will be better support for Vista x86 and Win7 x86.

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Message 20221 - Posted: 21 Jan 2011 | 20:17:56 UTC - in response to Message 20219.

It’s easier to write simple apps and if ATI doesn’t adequately support the creation of more complex apps then its better to wait for the next SDK than to continue to debug and report endless errors, knowing that they will not be fixed until the next SDK, if at all.

I don’t know of another Boinc project that manipulates large molecules.
Perhaps there will be better support for Vista x86 and Win7 x86.


http://dnahome.cs.rpi.edu/dna/

This project is in an very early stage and I can not say for shure, that it is as complex as GPUGRID, I'm no scientist. And until now there is no GPU-app, but moderators say they plan to do that.

Another thing: as far as I understood, OpenCL is a hardware independent programming language. Since GDF did some tests with an openCL app and it looks like he has an ready to go app (a lot of effort has been put it to get there with large structural changes), he could release that as an nVidia-app. This gives the possibility to test the app in the field und to compare speeds, at least again the cuda-app. This could also solve some problems with the apps for fermi only and non-fermi apps.

MW did that; the openCL and the cuda-apps take exact the same time to complete (only a few seconds apart for a 17min task).

Please do not misinterprete my words, I really don't want to bother anyone. Your efford to develop the project is appreciated. It's my interest for this project that leds me to encourage you to distribute an ATI-app, even if it is unstable. I will not post angry words.

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Message 20225 - Posted: 22 Jan 2011 | 7:25:36 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jan 2011 | 7:41:47 UTC

@skgiven: I apologize for my misinterpretational words. I wrote it "it looks like..." not "there is ...".

Of course I can´t help you, because my experiences in molecular modelling are more then 17 years ago and then these calculations were on an very early stage done on an 80286. And I´m not a programmer, only a lecturer and very interested in boinc and the projects. I want to spent my power and energy in "humanic" projects.

My thoughts were that from 2,111,537 boinc users (boinc-stats today) some have the knowledge to help this project. Of course akosh (I think that is the right spelling) was no gravitational expert "only" an interest user of E@H, who improved the performance of the apps. Now his optimations are included in the standard code of E@H apps.

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Message 20227 - Posted: 22 Jan 2011 | 12:55:24 UTC - in response to Message 20225.

You have spent a lot of time crunching mathematical projects such as DNETC, PrimeGrid, and Collatz, but not so much for the more humanitarian projects. Do you put your Cypres to use at Folding@home? Perhaps you should have thought through your choice of GPU a bit better before purchasing it and limiting yourself to mathematical analyses.

While OpenCL is a cross-device open language, each device still requires working drivers.

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Message 20228 - Posted: 22 Jan 2011 | 14:22:18 UTC

If one can accuse SK of being a fan then it would be a GPU-Grid fan ;)

The projects currently working on ATIs are comparably simple. That's why it was possible (for a single person in case of MW and CC) to optimize them this good and to get a stable app. The more you have to rely on calling complex functions from ATIs libraries the more you depend on them fixing their stuff. Which is not exactly easy. NVidia invested a huge amount of money into this software and still GPU-Grid does find quite some bugs in their code / drivers.

Anyway, the ATIs traditionally provide lot's of raw computation power per $ and good power efficiency. And in Cayman (HD69x0) this power became easier to use. So.. hopefully at some point it'll work. Don't put too much hope into OpenCL yet, though. It's not quite where people want to have it. And being able to run on anything doesn't mean one code path will be fast & efficient on anything..

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Message 20283 - Posted: 29 Jan 2011 | 20:21:21 UTC

So... Delayed until after SDK 2.4 is released?

If speed is the issue, then I'm sure most of us won't mind (it's better than nothing).

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Message 20284 - Posted: 29 Jan 2011 | 20:43:53 UTC

Yesterday Lunatics released their first ATI-OpenCL App for SETI (Multibeam).
:-(
~25min/task @ HD6950 6.10 (ati 13ati)
~21min/task @ GTX460 6.08 (cuda)

looks like ATI and OpenCL are not really best friends, but at least they run stable (I updated the ati and nVidia-drivers today).

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Message 20285 - Posted: 29 Jan 2011 | 23:27:16 UTC - in response to Message 20283.


If speed is the issue, then I'm sure most of us won't mind (it's better than nothing).


+1

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Message 20286 - Posted: 30 Jan 2011 | 0:07:11 UTC - in response to Message 20285.

GDF said that the problem was numerous bugs in the present SDK package. We know speed is not great but getting a working app is the main problem. Perhaps they will do better using Windows with the present SDK, but I am not holding up much hope. If not then we will have to wait for SDK 2.4, and testing will basically start over again.

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Message 20288 - Posted: 30 Jan 2011 | 16:42:47 UTC - in response to Message 20286.

If not then we will have to wait for SDK 2.4, and testing will basically start over again.

When should the new SDK be available?

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Message 20294 - Posted: 31 Jan 2011 | 13:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 20288.
Last modified: 31 Jan 2011 | 13:54:59 UTC

I cant find a future AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing SDK (APP SDK) , but my guess is SDK2.4 will be released in mid of April:
The last release dates have been in Dec 2009, Feb 2010, May 2010, Aug 2010, and Dec 2010. It looks like the release dates are spreading out; the gap has been 2months, 3months, 3months and 4months. So being optimistic my guess is about 4months from the 13th Dec 2010 release date – mid April 2011.

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Message 20428 - Posted: 13 Feb 2011 | 20:37:14 UTC

It's now the middle of February and nothing?
I really don't mean to be pushy, but there are several ATi users just waiting to contribute to this project.

Even if it's buggy, there are several of us here that would help you guys out with testing and hopefully provide useful feedback.
Like I've said before, something's better than nothing.

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Message 20432 - Posted: 14 Feb 2011 | 7:35:31 UTC - in response to Message 20428.

Given the expected ETA's of the next two APP SDK's and some knowledge of the researchers timetable, I don't expect another sustained attempt until around Aug.

If the drivers are not stable for a range of cards then by the time you debug/find work arounds, the next APP SDK will be out, making your efforts worthless. ATI even changed the name from SDK to APP SDK. It's down to ATI to have a useable APP SDK from which to work from.

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Message 20440 - Posted: 14 Feb 2011 | 18:40:53 UTC

That's sad to hear. :(
On the bright side Folding@home for ATi GPU's should have a new core and client soon (March). It's OpenCL/OpenMM based. :)

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Message 20448 - Posted: 14 Feb 2011 | 22:05:57 UTC - in response to Message 20440.

That is good news. I hope it goes well.

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Message 20449 - Posted: 14 Feb 2011 | 23:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 20428.

It's now the middle of February and nothing?
I really don't mean to be pushy, but there are several ATi users just waiting to contribute to this project.

Even if it's buggy, there are several of us here that would help you guys out with testing and hopefully provide useful feedback.
Like I've said before, something's better than nothing.


Myself included, I am going to upgrade back to an nvidia GPU soon, but still would like to beta test an ATI app

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Message 20450 - Posted: 15 Feb 2011 | 2:52:43 UTC

Oh, will check back here in 6 months and see then...

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Message 20835 - Posted: 1 Apr 2011 | 9:24:54 UTC - in response to Message 20450.

Stanford just released their OpenCL client for ATi (OpenCL 1.1, so only Radeon HD5xxx and 6xxx cards, older cards are being abandoned by that project), based on their opensource toolkit OpenMM. They seems to be happy with SDK 2.3, and a lot more for the speed improvements in 2.4 (in beta/RC now, with the latest 11.3/11.4 drivers).

What about you? Can I ask what are your real biggest problems deploying ATi OpenCL client?
You keep saying that it's buggy and I could be fine with that, but could you just elaborate a little bit on that? It's my curiosity asking!

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Message 20844 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011 | 9:10:05 UTC - in response to Message 20835.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2011 | 9:12:14 UTC

GDF said before that it's crashing a lot. I don't know anything else, though.
BTW: I've got Milkyway@Home running on my HD6950. It was fine with the release data beta Cat 10.12, but with Cat 11.2 it keeps crashing in conjunction with Win7 and Firefox 4 or a modern Winamp skin. Going to install 11.3 now and hope things improve.

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Message 20845 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011 | 10:37:16 UTC - in response to Message 20844.

I have running DNETC on 5870 and ist runninmg fine. I chaned yesterday tu 11.3 and it is a little quicker.

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Message 20851 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011 | 21:48:54 UTC - in response to Message 20835.

The quality of any OpenCL implementation is simply poor so far. At every new version one bug is fixed and two new appear. For us, it was just a big loss of time, but we will be here for AMD when they are ready.
There is no plan of release for now.

gdf

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Message 20898 - Posted: 11 Apr 2011 | 5:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 20851.

SDK 2.4 was released a few days ago.
I hope this changes things for the better.

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Message 20906 - Posted: 12 Apr 2011 | 17:34:05 UTC - in response to Message 20898.

Yeeee, sure :P

I sold HD5970 and bought... GTX480 - more ceredits then HD5970 but in.... PrimeGrid LOL

Still have HD5870... and waiting since 2009 for gpugrid app...
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Message 20910 - Posted: 12 Apr 2011 | 22:15:31 UTC - in response to Message 20906.
Last modified: 18 Apr 2011 | 8:55:14 UTC

Yeeee, sure :P

I sold HD5970 and bought... GTX480 - more ceredits then HD5970 but in.... PrimeGrid LOL

Still have HD5870... and waiting since 2009 for gpugrid app...

Ale dlaczego?
Czy uważasz, że punkty PrimeGrid są ważniejsze niż punkty GPUGRID?
Chodź tutaj.

en.
But why?
Do you think that the PrimeGrid points are more important than GPUGRID points?
Come here.

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Message 20941 - Posted: 13 Apr 2011 | 20:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 20910.

Nie wartościuje punktów ani projektów. Każdy projekt jest wartościowy, każde punkty cieszą. Liczę sobie tutaj, liczę sobie tam - dobrze się bawię i pozdrawiam wszystkich :D
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Message 20961 - Posted: 14 Apr 2011 | 17:35:50 UTC

Hello everyone,
I would like to ask everyone to keep their posts in English so everyone can read them, despite being not a native English speaker, thank you! I am no Englishman neither, but I give my best to do postings in English only...

Greetings from Germany and I am waiting for a working ATI OpenCL app with fingers crossed, whenever I can spare them as well!
Christopher
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Message 20995 - Posted: 18 Apr 2011 | 9:22:28 UTC - in response to Message 20961.
Last modified: 18 Apr 2011 | 9:25:37 UTC

On ATI development, I don't hold up much hope for the immediate future,

The quality of any OpenCL implementation is simply poor so far. At every new version one bug is fixed and two new appear. For us, it was just a big loss of time, but we will be here for AMD when they are ready.
There is no plan of release for now.

gdf

On language,
My advice is to post in English if you can. If your English is not great, post in your preferred language as well; a bad English translation is unlikely to get a response, but if you also use your preferred language someone will probably be able to speak it or make a better translation. You can use Google Translate, to get a reasonable translation. Using simplified language helps.
I have no objections to a few friendly words in any language, but if anyone is going to ramble on use the Personal Messaging facility.

If you see a post in a language you don't understand, it's probably small talk, otherwise they would probably have posted in English.

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Message 21791 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011 | 20:18:53 UTC

11.7 has amd app sdk 2.5 Is it any good or not?

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Message 21816 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011 | 21:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 21791.

we will be looking again at AMD only after the summer and will post comments here.

gdf

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Message 21869 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011 | 19:08:30 UTC - in response to Message 21791.

11.7 has amd app sdk 2.5 Is it any good or not?

In the meantime 11.8 is released. Makes heavy use of the CPU as well.

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Message 21881 - Posted: 23 Aug 2011 | 18:12:25 UTC - in response to Message 21869.

11.7 has amd app sdk 2.5 Is it any good or not?

In the meantime 11.8 is released. Makes heavy use of the CPU as well.

What makes heavy use of the CPU?

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Message 21965 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011 | 16:27:34 UTC - in response to Message 21881.

there's a bug in the latest sdk that makes a full use of a cpu-core whenever an opencl app is running.
They promised a fix, but still not here in 11.8
maybe in 11.9??

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Message 22144 - Posted: 22 Sep 2011 | 7:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 21965.

We have a more or less advanced stage application for AMD. Performance could be better, but at least it seems to run stably in a local machine. We might have a release of an alpha-app in the next couple of months.

gdf

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Message 22149 - Posted: 22 Sep 2011 | 21:09:52 UTC - in response to Message 22144.

People have been waiting for over 2 years for an AMD application. Some of us are willing to test even nightly builds asap.

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Message 22150 - Posted: 22 Sep 2011 | 22:02:48 UTC - in response to Message 22144.

... Performance could be better...

Could you please specify this?

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Message 22152 - Posted: 23 Sep 2011 | 7:00:37 UTC - in response to Message 22150.

H5850 is about 4 times slower than the top card a gtx580.

gdf

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Message 22153 - Posted: 23 Sep 2011 | 11:13:20 UTC - in response to Message 22152.

It is also four times cheaper.
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Message 22156 - Posted: 23 Sep 2011 | 15:01:43 UTC - in response to Message 22153.

It is also four times cheaper.


LOL! Excellent point!

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Message 22159 - Posted: 24 Sep 2011 | 17:20:43 UTC - in response to Message 22153.

It is also four times cheaper.


And *only* consumes half the power..

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Message 22161 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 7:33:21 UTC - in response to Message 22159.
Last modified: 25 Sep 2011 | 11:43:42 UTC

We are practically ready with the app alone. We have to test it on the context of boinc now.

First thing to do is to update the server to a more recent version, then wait for problems. Our server software is quite old and there could be problems which would only appear in a couple of weeks. I don't want to test AMD with the old server as no opencl was there then.

In the meanwhile we will do our tests locally on a private new server.

An other thing to say that it will be windows only for the first several months.

We have tested on one OS (XP32) and one card (H5850). So expect few issues. Hopefully, it all works and we can start submitting real workunits for amd. In such case they will be on a different app, not to affect the work on nvidia cards, but the porting of the code is complete, so they will be of the same usefulness of nvidia wus.

gdf

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Message 22162 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 9:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 22161.

The new amd app will require OpenCL 1.1 and double precision cards?

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Message 22163 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 10:44:58 UTC
Last modified: 25 Sep 2011 | 10:45:58 UTC

Is it possible to update the server for OpenCL without the *new credit* code?
If not, I would like to suggest that you run some NVidia WUs against the new server and let us know what we might see for credit per WU.

Not that I am participating in this excellent project for the points but we all know how fussy crunchers get when it comes to credits :-)
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Message 22165 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 11:13:10 UTC - in response to Message 22162.

The new amd app will require OpenCL 1.1 and double precision cards?


The nVidia code doesn't require dp, so there's no reason why the ATI code would. Can't tell you the OpenCL version, though.

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Message 22166 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 11:49:45 UTC - in response to Message 22165.

opencl 1.1 and jut single precision required.
H5000, H6000 and the new H7000 cards should work.

gdf

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Message 22167 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 13:11:07 UTC - in response to Message 22166.
Last modified: 25 Sep 2011 | 13:12:28 UTC

opencl 1.1 and jut single precision required.
H5000, H6000 and the new H7000 cards should work.

gdf


...it's time to burn some fusion chips
From my point of view, it doesn't matter if the gpu load is going to be 20-25%, I think my laptops are going to handle it

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Message 22169 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 17:23:00 UTC - in response to Message 22167.

gpu load is around 85%

g

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Message 22170 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 22:00:36 UTC - in response to Message 22169.

gpu load is around 85%

g


any rough estimate for alpha testing?...like next week? :)

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Message 22171 - Posted: 25 Sep 2011 | 22:20:54 UTC - in response to Message 22167.

...it's time to burn some fusion chips


The current Fursions are HD6000 series, so they should work :)
(don't expect performance miracles, though)

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Message 22177 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011 | 6:47:38 UTC - in response to Message 22170.

gpu load is around 85%

g


any rough estimate for alpha testing?...like next week? :)


More like next month.

gdf

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Message 22197 - Posted: 1 Oct 2011 | 16:01:05 UTC - in response to Message 22177.

gpu load is around 85%

g


any rough estimate for alpha testing?...like next week? :)


More like next month.

gdf


Ok. Now is 1.10.2011. What you waiting for?

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Message 22202 - Posted: 2 Oct 2011 | 20:16:13 UTC - in response to Message 22197.

What you waiting for?


Maybe for the app being ready for public alpha testing?

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Message 22204 - Posted: 2 Oct 2011 | 20:56:56 UTC - in response to Message 22202.

We are waiting to have time... We are submitting 2 new papers and two new applications for grants.

gdf

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Message 22474 - Posted: 4 Nov 2011 | 20:43:18 UTC - in response to Message 22204.

Any news on the AMD application?

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Message 22479 - Posted: 7 Nov 2011 | 3:03:58 UTC

I have two AMD GPUs I would love to use on this project! I hope you can get it out soon!

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Message 22517 - Posted: 13 Nov 2011 | 21:22:32 UTC

I am also interested by the future support for ATI / AMD, but I hope it will be stable and the performance will be a good level ?

I am part of the beta-team on folding @ home and for this project the performance of ATI / AMD is not very good even if there are improvements.

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Message 22518 - Posted: 14 Nov 2011 | 15:06:20 UTC - in response to Message 22517.

It's hard to compare performances between different projects, especially Boinc to non-Boinc. However I would still expect a high end AMD GPU (HD6900) to significantly outperform a high end CPU (i7-2600), which is not the case at folding.

We know the performance is not great compared to high end GTX500 series GPU's by NVidia, but again we are comparing mature CUDA apps to a pre-Beta OpenCL/GL app.

Basically a GPUGrid entry level NVidia card (say GT240 to GT430) would be on par with a mid-range AMD GPU (say HD5850 to HD5870). Obviously the high end 6000series should fair much better; perhaps approaching say a GTX470. I would expect the high end Southern Islands GPU's (7000 series), supposedly due out before the end of the year to at least match a GTX470. That said, Kepler would stretch the gap again, when released.

Would be beta testing will come down to time/timing; some work presently under way has to come first. How long that takes depends on the problems that are encountered. Not sure if a new NVidia app will happen first (presently on hold until next 2012), perhaps just for Linux, what the situation is WRT publications, seminars..., and the researchers might want to finish off some work using older code before anything happens.

Should a beta test run, be successful, and a live app be successfully used for a while, development might mean the gap here between AMD and NVidia apps would fall for GPUGrid, perhaps even with a mature OpenGL 4.2. However, such positive speculation should be made cautiously; a Beta could demonstrate unreliability, and require too much work from the researchers to get an AMD project off the ground.
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Message 22519 - Posted: 14 Nov 2011 | 20:46:09 UTC

AMDs current VLIW architecture is much harder to utilize efficiently than nVidias scalar shaders. That's likely why they've got these problems at F@H and why they're not yet rocking GPU-Grid. Sure, software is also a very important piece of the puzzle.. and AMDs compiler has a harder job keeping these execution units fed. But it's not always possible to work around fundamently architecture limitation by software - so it's not only about software maturity and "trying hard enough".

AMDs upcoming "Graphics Core Next" (GCN) will be the first departure from the VLIW since many years. It should be a lot easier to utilize. However, I doubt the same code path will run good on both, GCN and VLIW. That will lead to a very interesting, if not at times frustrating situation.

BTW: actually there's not that much of a difference between Cypress (HD58x0) and Cayman (HD69x0) apart from switching from VLIW5 to VLIW4. At best Cayman is 20% faster per clock. That matters a lot if you're competitive, but is nothing if you've got a catch up an entire order of magnitude :p

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Message 22520 - Posted: 14 Nov 2011 | 20:46:48 UTC

Yes I think that the performance gap between AMD and Nvidia should be large enough.

when is that AMD GPUs will be supported ?

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Message 22521 - Posted: 15 Nov 2011 | 0:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 22519.

Cayman may only be 20% faster than a 5850 per clock, but there are some monsters compared to a humble 5850. For example, you beast cuts through MW tasks in around a minute, while an HD5850 takes about three times as long. I'm not saying AMD's will be great, but some people might want to use their AMD GPU here.

If an HD 5850 really is about 1/4 the speed of a GTX580, then your Cayman might be somewhere around 2/3rds the speed of a GTX580.

Even if performance is poor compared to a GTX580, there are other considerations:
People with existing AMD GPU's have expressed an interest in using them here.
Their performance per Watt or per Euro/$/£ is not known for the app.
Some ranges of cards might be more competitive than others; mid-range AMD GPU's would be competing against many CC2.1 cards, rather than CC2.0 GPU's.

So, worth testing sometime I think.

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Message 22525 - Posted: 15 Nov 2011 | 20:53:41 UTC - in response to Message 22521.

Definitely worth it. For many GPU-Grid would be the first worthwhile project to run on AMDs :)

The HD5850 has 18 shader clusters at 725 MHz. Cayman has at best 24 and OC'ed about 900 MHz. You could go higher with the clock (given enough voltage), but so could the HD5850.
That works out to be a factor of 24/18 * 900/725 = 1.65. So.. I must confess I underestimated the difference a bit. Let's agree to meet in the middle, shall we? ;)

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Message 22531 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011 | 18:50:47 UTC - in response to Message 22525.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2011 | 19:44:12 UTC

We agree that it's worth testing, and would be a worthwhile project.
As for performances, the speculation can end when we have Beta tasks :)

If you meant 'Cayman was 20% faster clock-for-clock' then you could add that factor into the equation, for a more agreeable middle-ground ;)

    24/18 * 900/725 * 1.2 = 1.98.


- Almost forgot about Antilles, and all those mid range AMD cards with only single precision.
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Message 22535 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011 | 21:21:06 UTC - in response to Message 22531.

No, that 20% comes from the fact that Cayman has 24 shader clusters compared 20 in a full Cypress. On the HD5850 2 of them are deactivated. That's where the first factor 24/18 comes from ;)

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Message 22536 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011 | 22:04:34 UTC - in response to Message 22535.

You lost me at 20% faster per clock and 24/18 is 33%...
Anyway, I understand now :)


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Message 22539 - Posted: 17 Nov 2011 | 20:32:36 UTC - in response to Message 22536.

me wrote:
20% at best


.. that's for a full Cypress (24/20), which the HD5850 is not ;)

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Message 22578 - Posted: 25 Nov 2011 | 7:30:13 UTC

What can I say after two years of waiting to be able to count on ATI ...

This is my comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P2jJdrz9bY

And on HD79xx in 48 seconds it is on target ...

:D
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Message 22579 - Posted: 25 Nov 2011 | 10:11:19 UTC

Right, TomaszPawel, 'this calls for immediate discussion', this seems to be all that is happening on the ATI/AMD front...
'Nothing new in the east, west, north and south'?!
I am getting frustrated with waiting; right now I have an AMD Radeon HD 6990 and an ATI Radeon HD 5970, the former quite new, the latter sort of newish, but both ready to jump train, as soon as there might even be a beta app and work for it! So you so to say waste the power of four high-end GPUs...
Either give your volunteers a definitive date when there will be an app, and I mean definitive, or a definitive statement 'There will never be an ATI/AMD OpenCL app for the following reasons'! But please not this "sitting between two chairs" any longer!
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Message 22581 - Posted: 25 Nov 2011 | 15:57:48 UTC - in response to Message 22579.

There is an app, and it will be beta tested when the scientists are in the position to do so, and have the time. The scientists built, tested (as well as previous unusable apps) and reported what they observed in this thread. Server upgrades and site improvements are presently being tested/developed. These are required for the project as a whole, and to facilitate the introduction and maintenance of an AMD app. When these are finished and implemented the scientists can then begin work on preparing to release an AMD Beta app.
I'm not in a position to give a definitive release date, and I cannot see how the researchers would be, until just before being ready. As for commitment to an AMD app, it's my understanding that the researchers have put off the release of a new NVidia app at least in part to help forward the release of an AMD app.
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Message 22583 - Posted: 25 Nov 2011 | 16:29:43 UTC - in response to Message 22579.

Either give your volunteers a definitive date when there will be an app, and I mean definitive, or a definitive statement 'There will never be an ATI/AMD OpenCL app for the following reasons'! But please not this "sitting between two chairs" any longer!


Please tell me you're joking.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I really hope that you - a VOLUNTEER - are not making demands of the GPUGRID scientists & staff. They have limited resources, and we as volunteers are here to support them, not the other way around.

Look, if you've got some AMD cards lying around, I can appreciate you wanting to put them to work on this project. But IMO we should all remember our role as volunteers. The AMD app will get here when it gets here. Or not. Getting in a twist and griping because your expectations aren't being met is counter-productive.

Maybe I've misinterpreted your post...if so, I apologize in advance.

Cheers!

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Message 22584 - Posted: 25 Nov 2011 | 20:27:31 UTC - in response to Message 22583.

We would like to get some alpha app for ati/amd out by the end of the year. However, we don't know if it will good enough to go in production. The update of the server has required a very large amount of work so far.

gdf

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Message 22588 - Posted: 26 Nov 2011 | 15:19:24 UTC - in response to Message 22583.

Either give your volunteers a definitive date when there will be an app, and I mean definitive, or a definitive statement 'There will never be an ATI/AMD OpenCL app for the following reasons'! But please not this "sitting between two chairs" any longer!


Please tell me you're joking.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I really hope that you - a VOLUNTEER - are not making demands of the GPUGRID scientists & staff. They have limited resources, and we as volunteers are here to support them, not the other way around.

Look, if you've got some AMD cards lying around, I can appreciate you wanting to put them to work on this project. But IMO we should all remember our role as volunteers. The AMD app will get here when it gets here. Or not. Getting in a twist and griping because your expectations aren't being met is counter-productive.

Maybe I've misinterpreted your post...if so, I apologize in advance.

Cheers!


No, SMTB1963, I am not joking, but I have not 'demanded' anything as well. I said 'please' as you see in the second phrase of your quoted text of mine. :)

Yes, you are right, we are the volunteers, but we are also the volunteers! :)
We support science and the scientists more or less personally with volunteering a lot of money for hardware and power. In some cases this munificence makes the science possible in the first place, and I think this is one of these cases.

I do not see myself as a 'Megacruncher', if that is a part of my statement that should have been misunderstood. But I know a lot of guys in my team and elsewhere, that could be interested in unleashing a lot of power AMD-wise (and CUDA-wise) on this project.
And it is my point of view that all volunteers deserve to be kept up to date on the progress of such undertakings on a regular basis by an official. With this kind of answer of GDF and others:
We would like to get some alpha app for ati/amd out by the end of the year. However, we don't know if it will good enough to go in production. The update of the server has required a very large amount of work so far.

gdf

I am satisfied, because it contains all the official information I waited for. First, there is an app in alpha development status, second, it could (and perhaps will) be buggy, third, the reasons that hindered the progress...

Thank you to all officials and I look forward to help (alpha- or beta-)testing the app and will continue waiting with fingers crossed.
Please continue keeping us up to date whenever you can find the time!

Cheers and sorry again, if my chose of words in English was misunderstanding, as I am German and not a native speaker!
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Message 22591 - Posted: 26 Nov 2011 | 19:22:08 UTC - in response to Message 22588.

Seems like things have calmed down again, but I'll add some more cents anyway:

For people outside research it's sometimes difficult to imagine how it works. In reality there's no

Kirk: Scotty, how much time do you need?
Scotty: 2 Days!
Kirk: I'll give you 1!
Scotty: I'll do it in a half!

and there's always something unexpected crossing your way. The question is just how severe that is and how much effort it takes to get around it. Personally I wouldn't dare committing to a release date for a highly experimental piece of software. Well, one could release a half baked alpha in time.. but that wouldn't please people either.

And people tend to be impatient and tend to hear what they want to hear. So "we hope to get an alpha out by x" quickly turns into "Woow, there'll be an app by x!". Which is quite different..

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Message 22599 - Posted: 27 Nov 2011 | 14:43:30 UTC - in response to Message 22591.
Last modified: 27 Nov 2011 | 14:44:09 UTC

Seems like things have calmed down again, but I'll add some more cents anyway:

For people outside research it's sometimes difficult to imagine how it works. In reality there's no

Kirk: Scotty, how much time do you need?
Scotty: 2 Days!
Kirk: I'll give you 1!
Scotty: I'll do it in a half!

and there's always something unexpected crossing your way. The question is just how severe that is and how much effort it takes to get around it. Personally I wouldn't dare committing to a release date for a highly experimental piece of software. Well, one could release a half baked alpha in time.. but that wouldn't please people either.

And people tend to be impatient and tend to hear what they want to hear. So "we hope to get an alpha out by x" quickly turns into "Woow, there'll be an app by x!". Which is quite different..

MrS


My Genealogy software did exactly that, they gave a hoped for release date and then caught holy he!! for missing it. They came on and gave the reasons for the delay and it did not help!! They now say it will be relased when it is ready and not before, they still catch some flak but not nearly as much!!

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Message 22601 - Posted: 27 Nov 2011 | 20:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 22591.

For people outside research it's sometimes difficult to imagine how it works... [beamed Kirk & Scotty out of quote] ...there's always something unexpected crossing your way. The question is just how severe that is and how much effort it takes to get around it. Personally I wouldn't dare committing to a release date for a highly experimental piece of software. Well, one could release a half baked alpha in time.. but that wouldn't please people either.

And people tend to be impatient and tend to hear what they want to hear. So "we hope to get an alpha out by x" quickly turns into "Woow, there'll be an app by x!". Which is quite different..

MrS


Hmmm, This sounds a lot like software development at work. Oh, wait, this IS software development! Just not at work. ;-) LOL
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Message 22610 - Posted: 28 Nov 2011 | 19:56:30 UTC - in response to Message 22601.

Oh, wait, this IS software development! Just not at work. ;-) LOL

Not your work :D

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Message 22612 - Posted: 28 Nov 2011 | 22:39:25 UTC - in response to Message 22610.

Oh, wait, this IS software development! Just not at work. ;-) LOL

Not your work :D

MrS
ROFLMAO... Excellent point!

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Message 22733 - Posted: 18 Dec 2011 | 15:28:00 UTC - in response to Message 22612.

HI,
GCN is the suggested core for GPUGRID, its performance should rival Nvidia cores.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-HD-7900-XDR2-Rambus-Memory,13408.html

gdf

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Message 22734 - Posted: 18 Dec 2011 | 17:33:05 UTC - in response to Message 22733.

HI,
GCN is the suggested core for GPUGRID, its performance should rival Nvidia cores.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-HD-7900-XDR2-Rambus-Memory,13408.html

gdf

In an older post you said that the amd app should support OpenCL 1.0, meaning 4xxx series and up.
Are you trying to say that the 2 previous architectures will be abandoned?

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Message 22735 - Posted: 18 Dec 2011 | 18:31:33 UTC - in response to Message 22734.

We don't know yet, but we will start testing on GCN cards and initially support those. I am expecting enough problems already with a single compiler generation.

gdf

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Message 22736 - Posted: 18 Dec 2011 | 19:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 22735.
Last modified: 18 Dec 2011 | 19:40:00 UTC

We don't know yet, but we will start testing on GCN cards and initially support those. I am expecting enough problems already with a single compiler generation.

gdf

If this is the best answer after 2 years of waiting, to support an architecture that it's not even out yet, then ... good luck with all that

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Message 22737 - Posted: 18 Dec 2011 | 21:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 22736.

Performance of alpha versions has been pretty lacking compared to what's possible on nVidia hardware. Folding@Home is facing a similar problem. The current ATIs are hard to utilize effciently. GCN is changing this, it should be approximately equal to Fermi in terms of flexibility. If any ATI can be useful here it's GCN.

Rumored launch is in 4 days, or maybe the 9th january.

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Message 22740 - Posted: 19 Dec 2011 | 19:40:02 UTC - in response to Message 22737.

We simply have not resources to take on the debugging on all VLIW4 AMD cards. The present and the future is GCN. Then, if it happens a miracle and the stability of VLIW4 is good, then we can also release for that. But again, running gpugrid on VLIW4 cards is very inefficient.

gdf

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Message 22742 - Posted: 19 Dec 2011 | 21:19:53 UTC - in response to Message 22740.

As well as VLIW5, I take it?

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Message 22758 - Posted: 20 Dec 2011 | 16:38:21 UTC

GCN is now 1D Shader or like some say 16D? :confused
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Message 22766 - Posted: 20 Dec 2011 | 17:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 22758.

maybe opencl can open a door and could be easier to handle within a timescale ??
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Message 22786 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 10:46:36 UTC - in response to Message 22766.

if you like to "fold" some aminoacids/proteins with your GPU, you now can try POEM@Home and their new open CL app.
A the moment onlx Linuy is supported, Windows will follow. All ati-cards from the 4000, 5000 and 6000er serie are supported.

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Message 22789 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 19:33:50 UTC

I'm still hoping to get some wu's for my AMD-Cards ...

Was ist neu im AMD APP SDK V2.6?

Key features supported in SDK 2.6 and the Catalyst 11.12 drivers include:

OpenCL runtime integration into Linux and Windows® Catalyst drivers.
Inclusion of the Khronos C++ wrapper API.
Multi-GPU support on Linux platforms.
PX5 support.
Preview: Support for AVX instructions on CPUs that support AVX.
Support for FMA4 instructions in OpenCL built-in function libraries on CPUs that support FMA4.
Kernel reflection, query kernel parameters, and enable use of OpenCL kernels in data-driven applications.
Support for atomic counters on APUs.
Redesign of OpenCL run-time on CPU, significantly improving performance.
Support for the cl_amd_media_ops2 extension, exposing hardware capabilities for accelerating image-related processing.
Async copies preview (set environment variable GPU_ASYNC_MEM_COPY=2 to enable).


The OpenCL 1.2 preview includes the following capabilities (requires 8.93.10 preview drivers):

Host access flags for memory objects enables more efficient buffer handling.
Pattern-based GPU buffer and image initialization eliminates need for certain buffer/image transfers.
Memory objects migration supports early transfer of buffers in preparation for when they are needed.
New generalized image creation API.
Enhanced image/buffer map operations.
OpenCL 1.2 CPU device partition, including partition of a CPU after addition to a context.
Generalized 1D and 2D images, image arrays, and image <--> buffer interop.
The 8.93.10 preview drivers also enable use of the static C++ kernel language.


gDEBugger version 6.1 is a major improvement in performance and robustness over version 6.0.
It can be downloaded for use with this SDK from http://developer.amd.com/gDEBugger.

Integrated with Microsoft® Visual Studio
Release Notes


APP KernelAnalyzer v 1.1:

Support for AMD Radeon™ HD7000 series GPUs (compilation only, no analysis).
Support for Catalyst revisions through 11.11.
Support for compiling kernels with the installed driver (select Installed Driver under the CAL version in the Options panel).
Format and Target Object Code are now separated.


APP Profiler v2.4 includes several key new features, including:

A kernel occupancy analyzer that estimates, for each kernel dispatch, the number of in-flight wavefronts on a compute unit as a percentage of the theoretical maximum number of wavefronts that the compute unit can support. In addition to reporting the occupancy percentage, the profiler can display a report that can help the developer achieve a higher occupancy percentage.
The ability to navigate from the API trace to the source code that called an OpenCL API.
Improved OpenCL API analysis that provides performance suggestions to the developer.
The ability to filter which OpenCL APIs are traced.
Several UI enhancements, including the ability to rename sessions from the Session Explorer Window, and the ability to automatically delete Profiler sessions when closing a Microsoft Visual Studio solution.
Preview: Support for profiling with AMD Radeon HD 7000 series GPUs (requires AMD APP SDK v2.6 and an AMD Catalyst version that supports this hardware).

Hope that helps!

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Message 22790 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 20:12:21 UTC - in response to Message 22786.

if you like to "fold" some aminoacids/proteins with your GPU, you now can try POEM@Home and their new open CL app.
A the moment onlx Linuy is supported, Windows will follow. All ati-cards from the 4000, 5000 and 6000er serie are supported.

I'm still waiting for the windows version and the gpu version of hcc over at wcg.
The system requirements on this project are too high.
I'm out.

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Message 22792 - Posted: 22 Dec 2011 | 8:51:56 UTC - in response to Message 22790.


I'm still waiting for the windows version and the gpu version of hcc over at wcg.
The system requirements on this project are too high.
I'm out.


I wait also windows app. :-)

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Message 22796 - Posted: 22 Dec 2011 | 14:58:15 UTC

I'm about to look up the HD 7970 and check if it fits my rather tight power limit requirements, or if I need to wait for a later board in that series that does.

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Message 22808 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 11:37:20 UTC

POEM did it, and you ?

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Message 22811 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 22796.

Expect to pay over $500 for the 7970, at least right at first anyway ...

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Message 22813 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:15:26 UTC - in response to Message 22808.
Last modified: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:23:50 UTC

GDF made the decision that GPUGrid will only try to use GCN based AMD GPU's due to the relatively poor performance of existing AMD models (up to and including the 6000 series), and presumably logistical reasons. Basically, this will limit any GPUGrid app to the high and probably mid range 7000 series AMD GPU's; Radeon HD 7970, 7950, 7990 and probably 7870 and 7850. I doubt if the intermediate 7770 and 7750 GPU's would be usable (depends on performance/GCN). Obviously testing can't happen until the GPU's have been released and the researchers have a GPU to test. STEVE pointed out the high costs, 'over $500 for the 7970'. Good point, there might not be a massive demand for an AMD app. I suspect cards might trickle out in pairs rather than all get released at once and the 7990 is not due until March.

As pointed out you can now use your old and present AMD GPU's at POEM. 4000 through to 6000 series.
Requirements are Boinc Beta version 7.x and I think Catalyst 11.x drivers. Works for Linux and Windows and is OpenCL.
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Message 22814 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:42:20 UTC - in response to Message 22813.

HI,
just to specify we still have not tried any GCN based card. We expect to be good, but don't have any number, nor we know if it works at all. We have amd to send us one, let's see.
The code is ready, so as soon as we get one in, we should be able to send out the numbers.

Looking at the numbers on compute published by some sites, I still expect kepler to be faster, but probably quite close.

gdf

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Message 22815 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:45:30 UTC - in response to Message 22813.
Last modified: 24 Dec 2011 | 15:47:51 UTC

GDF made the decision that GPUGrid will only try to use GCN based AMD GPU's due to the relatively poor performance of existing AMD models (up to and including the 6000 series), and presumably logistical reasons. Basically, this will limit any GPUGrid app to the high and probably mid range 7000 series AMD GPU's; Radeon HD 7970, 7950, 7990 and probably 7870 and 7850. I doubt if the intermediate 7770 and 7750 GPU's would be usable (depends on performance/GCN). Obviously testing can't happen until the GPU's have been released and the researchers have a GPU to test. STEVE pointed out the high costs, 'over $500 for the 7970'. Good point, there might not be a massive demand for an AMD app. I suspect cards might trickle out in pairs rather than all get released at once and the 7990 is not due until March.

As pointed out you can now use your old and present AMD GPU's at POEM. 4000 through to 6000 series.
Requirements are Boinc Beta version 7.x and I think Catalyst 11.x drivers. Works for Linux and Windows and is OpenCL.


You're wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_graphics_processing_units#Southern_Islands_.28HD_7xxx.29_series
The only cards that will support GCN will be 79x0. Just like 69x0 were the only ones from the 6xxx series that supported VLIW4.

From my point of view, if poem did it, if folding did it, if wcg (most probably) did it, why couldn't gpugrid not do it?
I would have preferred to have a low gpu utilization just like over at folding, instead of not heaving any app. The guys from SETI faced the same problem, but they bypassed by running two applications simultaneously.
I actually would have wanted a low utilization since I would have let the app running non-stop while also doing other stuff on the computer.

All I can say is ...¡Feliz Navidad! and see you in 1 year+, when the new fusion series is release which, hopefully, will have GCN on it.

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Message 22816 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 16:55:04 UTC - in response to Message 22815.
Last modified: 24 Dec 2011 | 17:11:33 UTC

Probably doesn't mean definitely. So no GCN for 7800 series, fair enough. That changes the picture, for me. In Jan there would only be two very expensive GCN cards. Don't know how worth while it would be supporting a project with say ten 7900 GPU's attached?

As for that wiki page, I have my usual doubts about it's accuracy.

My take on things is that the initial 7000 release will use GDDR5, and not XDR2?
If so, and if future cards will use XDR2 then is it also possible later editions of the 7800 will be released with GCN?
Will the 7800's use VLIW5, just like the present (40nm) 7600M cards, and will it be any better than VLIW4 and VLIW3?

Was the AMD app ever tested on VLIW4 and VLIW5 GPU's?
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Message 22817 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 17:21:22 UTC - in response to Message 22816.

We never tested on VLIW4. Yet, I would expect marginal improvements compared to VLIW5. It's not just a problem of VLIWX, there are many more problems in those cards for compute.

As I said as long that older cards are stable, we can support them. What we cannot support is too many generations because each one comes with their bugs. The more bugs there will be, the less we can support. A VLIW5 card would probably be 8 times slower than Kepler (consider the save in electricity).

gdf

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Message 22818 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 18:05:22 UTC

Well, if this should or will indeed be the final verdict here, then this will be it for me! If that is all, you were able to conclude in around two years, then this is disappointing and poor!
I have two fairly newish AMD Radeon HD 6990/ATI Radeon HD 5970 cards here, that of course do well on other projects, but will supposedly not here...

A project that thinks its volunteers can afford high-priced high-end cards every year, is severely mistaken, has lost it and obviously is living in a dream world! Why not simply making the prerequisite of a working quantum computer, if you want to sort out only wealthy gals and guys? I do not intend to spend countless €s on new state-of-the-art GPU hardware every year just to be able to run your project!

And btw regarding that there has allegedly not been enough time to take care of this matter earlier: was the new website REALLY that important for the project or the science? The old one did it for me personally quite well IMHO.

Sorry, this becomes frustrating and unnerving! Every new post in here makes one think: "Oooh, now there is good news!" and the news just go from bad to worse!

Have a nice Christmas though and I hope Santa is putting a thousand brand new, top model AMD Radeon HD 7990 under your Christmas trees even before release date, or however the enthusiast card will be named then! ;)

Ban me, if you must, for I am beginning to not care anymore!
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Message 22819 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 19:23:17 UTC - in response to Message 22818.
Last modified: 24 Dec 2011 | 19:34:31 UTC

I'm far from disappointed or frustrated; I was holding onto an HD5850 in the hope I could use it here, but now that POEM has launched an AMD GPU app, I am delighted I can use it there on a Bio-science project, somewhat similar to this project. Even if GPUGrid launched the AMD app, I don't think I would want to use it here - well not if it would only contribute 1/8th the performance of a comparable NVidia GPU, and we are talking about a 2088GFlops GPU performing like a GT240, and not if the performance at POEM is 4 or 5 times better. Performance is very much down to the research requirements, and GPUGrid does some of the most complex GPU research anywhere.

You have a GTX 480 running here, and doing good research. Be happy with that, and use your AMD GPU's at POEM.

GDF and the other researchers/developers have to make decisions like this. They have limited numbers and resources, so if they feel now is not a good time to launch an AMD app (due to poor performance, numerous bugs over several generations, and other projects) then I can live with that. The time and effort required to facilitate and support a poor performing app is probably not worth it. Kepler is also coming out soon, and the team has to prepare to facilitate those cards, and they will probably be twice as fast at crunching.

A lot of effort went into testing both a new server system and site. Other ongoing considerations include new apps, and better recognition systems. The site definitely needed an overhaul and in my opinion has resolved many issues and made many significant improvements. The server upgrade simply had to be done.

I will not be rushing out to buy a 7950, and I would not suggest anyone else does - they will be too expensive, for me, and who knows what the performance will be like. Six months or a year from now, when we know what the performances are and cost relative to comparable NVidia cards, then perhaps I will get one, or perhaps I will get one for another project, POEM, or possibly WCG.

PS. Nobody is getting banned for speaking their mind. If you say it like you see it, keep it clean, and don't attack anyone, I have no issues. Throw a wobbler and crazy posts just get deleted, not your account. Have a good Christmas.
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Message 22821 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 20:29:49 UTC - in response to Message 22819.
Last modified: 25 Dec 2011 | 8:37:52 UTC

Hi,
let me clarify because I see that there are a lot of people that would like to use their cards and fear that they cannot. I am not saying anything new and we are not working against you, but with you.

1) Bad, well known news. The VLIW5/4 AMD cards are very powerful cards and usually cheaper than nvidia, also the top cards beat nvidia in terms of raw performance. However, only very numerical intense algorithms can benefit. For gpugrid, a top VLIW5 card consumes almost like a gtx580 but has a performance of a gt8800, a card of several years ago which is not recommended. It's not a decision, there is nothing we can do about it and we tried a lot. Other algorithms are better with this and electricity costs 3 times the card.

2) Good news, to be confirmed. In the future, new Amd cards based on GCN should level up with Nvidia fermi/kepler. We could not check it but all the indications are good. So take this with a level of uncertainty. Expect to have an equal representation of nvidia and amd at gpugrid in the future. This will be great because half (or more) of the world cannot crunch for us now. In the past few months we have spent plenty of hours to prepare for AMD.

Of course, don't go and buy a new card because of this! The HD7950 is expensive because now it's the fastest card worldwide. It will cost 100USD or less as soon as nvidia wakes up with kepler. There will be other reduced GCN cards also cheaper and less power hungry. According the news websites, AMD will put out all the new cards within 6 months, so there should be plenty.

We only have a single VLIW5 card now. That's all. Maybe soon a GCN card. We will test on those. If it works, meaning it is really stable, the application will go out. If you want to use it on VLIW5 do it, but your are not using it for its capabilities here and there is nothing, absolutely nothing we or amd can do about it.

Enjoy holidays and merry Christmas.

gdf

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Message 22822 - Posted: 24 Dec 2011 | 21:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 22818.

I have two fairly newish AMD Radeon HD 6990/ATI Radeon HD 5970 cards here, that of course do well on other projects, but will supposedly not here...

If you want to contribute to this project so badly, should't you have bought a couple of not so high end nVidia cards (GTX 470, 570) instead?

A project that thinks its volunteers can afford high-priced high-end cards every year, is severely mistaken, has lost it and obviously is living in a dream world!

You are obviously mistaken. You have a card like that, but from the wrong vendor.

Why not simply making the prerequisite of a working quantum computer, if you want to sort out only wealthy gals and guys? I do not intend to spend countless €s on new state-of-the-art GPU hardware every year just to be able to run your project!

Your frustration speaking. I guess you would be equally frustrated from a ridiculously performing AMD client. You can use well your AMD cards elsewhere, so there is no loss from scientific point of view.

And btw regarding that there has allegedly not been enough time to take care of this matter earlier: was the new website REALLY that important for the project or the science? The old one did it for me personally quite well IMHO.

This is a selfish point of view. Maybe the old server software and website didn't do so well for the project.

Sorry, this becomes frustrating and unnerving! Every new post in here makes one think: "Oooh, now there is good news!" and the news just go from bad to worse!

See this post.

Ban me, if you must, for I am beginning to not care anymore!

AMD should be banned for making their customers believe that their GPUs can do everything that nVidia GPUs can. However they will catch up with their new GCN architecture.

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Message 22823 - Posted: 25 Dec 2011 | 1:50:45 UTC - in response to Message 22818.

A project that thinks its volunteers can afford high-priced high-end cards every year, is severely mistaken, has lost it and obviously is living in a dream world!


You are the one living in a dream world. They don't think volunteers can afford expensive cards every year. The reason they will not support the current crop of AMD GPUs is because they cannot get their algorithm to work well on it. It does *not* matter how many other projects have their code running on AMD, the only thing that matters is the fact that the GPUgrid code does not run well on current AMDs. Maybe with more time and effort it could be done but the developers have made it clear they have invested all the time and effort they can. You have to get used to the idea that project admins are not born to serve us and cater to our demands to make their project run on our hardware and no amount of whining and bellyaching from you is going to change that. Accept it like an adult and move on.

I do not intend to spend countless €s on new state-of-the-art GPU hardware every year just to be able to run your project!


You don't have infinite amounts of money and they don't have infinite amounts of time. Yet you expect them to spend countless hours developing for your hardware! That isn't the way the world works. Successful people know when it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and move on. As far as GPUgrid computations are concerned, your AMD is a dead horse and it isn't going to run no matter how hard you/they flog it. It's time to bury the horse and move on to something productive.

And btw regarding that there has allegedly not been enough time to take care of this matter earlier: was the new website REALLY that important for the project or the science? The old one did it for me personally quite well IMHO.


The old website and server sucked. This one is much better and the time they invested in that was well spent.

Sorry, this becomes frustrating and unnerving! Every new post in here makes one think: "Oooh, now there is good news!" and the news just go from bad to worse!


Awwwwww! I'm so sad for you. Maybe in the future the developers should just say nothing about anything they try just so you won't be disappointed? Do you promise to then say nothing concerning the fact the developers say nothing?

Have a nice Christmas though and I hope Santa is putting a thousand brand new, top model AMD Radeon HD 7990 under your Christmas trees even before release date, or however the enthusiast card will be named then! ;)


Merry Christmas. I hope Santa brings you one too.

Ban me, if you must, for I am beginning to not care anymore!


Do you think we care that you don't care? The only one you seem to care about is you. You don't care about what the devs have tried to do and why it won't work. Why should anybody care about you not caring?

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Message 22825 - Posted: 25 Dec 2011 | 6:38:04 UTC - in response to Message 22818.

I do not intend to spend countless €s on new state-of-the-art GPU hardware every year just to be able to run your project!


Christopher, there are plenty of low cost options for running GPUGRID if you really want to. I recently bought a b-stock GTX275 SC from EVGA for < $150 shipped. Damn thing gets ~100K/day as long as my network's not futzing out. I've seen GTX260s on e-bay for as little as $40, and they're good for 45-50K/day (maybe more).

My point is that with a little looking, one doesn't have to spend much at all to volunteer here.

But if you're just dead set on running AMD and nothing else, I'm afraid you're going to have to be a little more patient.

Cheers!


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Message 22942 - Posted: 11 Jan 2012 | 6:13:12 UTC

Big Question at the Projectteam here:

Did you test AMD APP SDK with FFToptimized API ( http://developer.amd.com/libraries/appmathlibs/Pages/default.aspx )

AMDs current GPUs should crunsh nVIDIA without any problems like they do on:
- Collatz
- Milkyway
- POEM
- Einstein@Home Beta called Albert@Home

By the way if OpenCL is the problem - use the working one : CAL

It would be easier if you would allow external developer so people like Gipsel could help ...

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Message 22945 - Posted: 11 Jan 2012 | 12:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 22942.

Or Timo from POEM since he got the application running with OpenCL.

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Message 23175 - Posted: 29 Jan 2012 | 11:27:42 UTC

Cite from another thread:

GDF wrote:
If all goes well, there are good chances that we will be able to provide a new AMD application very soon for all type of cards which are supporting OpenCL, not only GCN. We are already testing now.

I'll keep you posted by the end of the next week.

MrS
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Message 23314 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 18:46:26 UTC - in response to Message 23175.

If you have an ATI card please attach to this satellite project of gpugrid.
http://donateathome.org

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Message 23320 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 19:08:36 UTC

You've been serious about this, haven't you? ;)

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Message 23322 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 20:08:01 UTC

It's a nice idea, but I'd rather donate my GPU resources in a more "scientific" way through GPUGRID.
I'll run other projects (Milkyway, POEM) on my 7970 until GPUGRID is ready.

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Message 23326 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:02:40 UTC - in response to Message 23322.

For me the bitcoin network is an impressive idea. Read about it:
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I understand that somebody might want to do scientific calculations instead, that's why we kept it separate. So you can choose to participate. It's very different from molecular simulations of course.

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Message 23327 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:06:28 UTC

I'll give it a try.
There are still bugs in the other projects that refrain me from running them 24/7 so it can't hurt.

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Message 23328 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:12:45 UTC - in response to Message 23326.
Last modified: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:17:47 UTC

For me the bitcoin network is an impressive idea. Read about it:
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I understand that somebody might want to do scientific calculations instead, that's why we kept it separate. So you can choose to participate. It's very different from molecular simulations of course.

gdf


But the Project it's self say's you won't be getting any Bitcoin's ... Also other than saying it gives BOINC Credits no where at or on the Site does anything indicate it's a BOINC Project, at least I couldn't find anything ...


What is donate@home?

Your compute time will support science and at the same time participate to the bitcoin experiment. You don’t gain bitcoins in this project. You do receive BOINC credits which have only a symbolic value of your participation. So, the only reason to participate is to make a difference, nothing else is gained. You might also want to volunteer your computing time to do scientific calculations, then give a look at gpugrid.net

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Message 23331 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:34:00 UTC - in response to Message 23328.

HI Steve. We will add that this is using BOINC.
I did not understand your first point.
thanks

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Message 23333 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:37:56 UTC
Last modified: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:39:20 UTC

If I understand correctly this is just a testing phase to get the project started.
I don't think they will actually get BitCoins until the bugs are ironed out (I could be wrong).

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Message 23335 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 21:59:33 UTC - in response to Message 23331.

HI Steve. We will add that this is using BOINC.
I did not understand your first point.
thanks


The Project says:

You don’t gain bitcoins in this project.


was my 1'st point. Maybe the GPUGrid Project gets the BitCoins ??? but from what I read the Participants don't. Not that that bothers me as I don't have anything to do with BitCoins anyway, at least not at this time anyway ...
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Message 23336 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 22:12:52 UTC
Last modified: 8 Feb 2012 | 22:13:31 UTC

Keeps telling me I'm using the wrong url even though I've tried the proper one 3 times ...

PBOYZTOY16 Donate@Home 2/8/2012 5:09:34 PM You used the wrong URL for this project. When convenient, remove this project, then add http://donateathome.org/
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Message 23337 - Posted: 8 Feb 2012 | 22:14:50 UTC - in response to Message 23336.

yes the right url is
http://donateathome.org

gdf

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Message 23382 - Posted: 10 Feb 2012 | 20:56:33 UTC
Last modified: 10 Feb 2012 | 21:04:18 UTC

no comment

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Message 23383 - Posted: 10 Feb 2012 | 21:10:26 UTC

GDF, why don't you give away resources of people, who came here to crunch for science, to render commercial graphics? it will bring you even more money, and stable payouts
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Message 23395 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012 | 9:24:04 UTC

Sounds fishy. Somehow feels like a scam. Didn't expect this from medical boinc project. I think i will quit gpugrid and move to other projects untill they too start to try make money out of crunching power.
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Message 23399 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012 | 17:28:37 UTC

It's to sponsor their project, not personal gain.

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Message 23404 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012 | 0:05:52 UTC - in response to Message 23395.

Sounds fishy. Somehow feels like a scam. Didn't expect this from medical boinc project. I think i will quit gpugrid and move to other projects untill they too start to try make money out of crunching power.



Can you please clarify what you mean by "Sounds fishy" and "Somehow feels like a scam"

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Message 24409 - Posted: 12 Apr 2012 | 16:54:11 UTC

How's the progress coming along?
I'm guessing the HD 7770 is being tested in-house.

Thanks.

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Message 24435 - Posted: 14 Apr 2012 | 9:13:23 UTC - in response to Message 24409.
Last modified: 14 Apr 2012 | 9:14:04 UTC

How's the progress coming along?
I'm guessing the HD 7770 is being tested in-house.

Thanks.

http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=2778

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Message 59705 - Posted: 10 Jan 2023 | 13:50:40 UTC

Hello everyone, I resurrect this topic to know if there is any minimal hope of having an application for GPUs of this brand now acquired and changed in AMD for several years?
The title of the topic will also need to be updated, right?

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Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : GPUGRID and ATI

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