Advanced search

Message boards : Number crunching : Budget Cruncher, need input

Author Message
pwolfe
Send message
Joined: 24 Mar 09
Posts: 54
Credit: 16,186,927
RAC: 0
Level
Pro
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17305 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 18:50:19 UTC

Is there any reason why I would not want to use a dual core processor with a machine housing 3 gt240s?

Planning on using a dual core i3 with 3 gt 240s and 64 bit Linux.
Will I see a major performance hit over using a quad core?

tia

Betting Slip
Send message
Joined: 5 Jan 09
Posts: 670
Credit: 2,498,095,550
RAC: 0
Level
Phe
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17306 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 19:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 17305.

Is there any reason why I would not want to use a dual core processor with a machine housing 3 gt240s?

Planning on using a dual core i3 with 3 gt 240s and 64 bit Linux.
Will I see a major performance hit over using a quad core?

tia

That will depend if your going to be crunching any CPU projects at the same time as GPUGRID but overall it will be fine. Make sure you have enough RAM 4GB recommended.


____________
Radio Caroline, the world's most famous offshore pirate radio station.
Great music since April 1964. Support Radio Caroline Team -
Radio Caroline

pwolfe
Send message
Joined: 24 Mar 09
Posts: 54
Credit: 16,186,927
RAC: 0
Level
Pro
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17307 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 19:06:59 UTC - in response to Message 17306.

Is there any reason why I would not want to use a dual core processor with a machine housing 3 gt240s?

Planning on using a dual core i3 with 3 gt 240s and 64 bit Linux.
Will I see a major performance hit over using a quad core?

tia

That will depend if your going to be crunching any CPU projects at the same time as GPUGRID but overall it will be fine. Make sure you have enough RAM 4GB recommended.



Was planning to use this machine solely for crunching gpu tasks. Any spare cpu cycles will be for serving up video files across the network to my htpc.

Betting Slip
Send message
Joined: 5 Jan 09
Posts: 670
Credit: 2,498,095,550
RAC: 0
Level
Phe
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17308 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 19:34:42 UTC - in response to Message 17307.

it will be more than enough for that use and more. Happy crunching.
____________
Radio Caroline, the world's most famous offshore pirate radio station.
Great music since April 1964. Support Radio Caroline Team -
Radio Caroline

Profile liveonc
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 10
Posts: 292
Credit: 41,567,650
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17309 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 19:43:56 UTC - in response to Message 17305.

i3 has Hyperthreading. 4GB RAM sounds nice. You've got a large budget for a budget PC ;-) Might I ask what Linux you use? You've got a really nice thing going with almost no errors.
____________

pwolfe
Send message
Joined: 24 Mar 09
Posts: 54
Credit: 16,186,927
RAC: 0
Level
Pro
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 17310 - Posted: 25 May 2010 | 20:23:34 UTC - in response to Message 17309.
Last modified: 25 May 2010 | 20:25:28 UTC

I'm currently running ubuntu 10.04. I've tried just about ever distro over the 12 years or so I've used Linux, but ubuntu has been my favorite cause its just so damn easy to use.

As far as errors go, I almost never saw an error with with my gtx295, so far the 470s have been been pretty hassle free aside from some driver issues I'm currently fighting. My GTS 250 in the htpc however loves to throw errors.

JLConawayII
Send message
Joined: 31 May 10
Posts: 48
Credit: 28,893,779
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18811 - Posted: 2 Oct 2010 | 20:57:02 UTC

Personally I would recommend an AMD processor for a budget rig. You can get a very nice quad core for the same price as an i3.

Profile liveonc
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 10
Posts: 292
Credit: 41,567,650
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18814 - Posted: 3 Oct 2010 | 14:39:29 UTC - in response to Message 18811.

I usually use this site HARDWARE-REVOLUTION if I need a quick refresh. He seams like he keeps himself informed of the general prices of hardware.
____________

JLConawayII
Send message
Joined: 31 May 10
Posts: 48
Credit: 28,893,779
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18816 - Posted: 3 Oct 2010 | 17:56:15 UTC - in response to Message 18814.

That seems to be a decent site. They list the Phenom II x4 945 3.0GHz as the best processor at the $140 price point, which is probably the one I would recommend as well. It uses 95W of power vs 125W for the slightly beefier Phenom II x4 965 3.4GHz Black Edition, though with 3x GT240s I'm not sure how concerned you are about power conservation. Either of those processors would be a solid choice, and will outperform an i3. The more powerful quad core will leave you the option of running CPU-only tasks later on, should you choose to expand your participation in BOINC projects.

Profile liveonc
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 10
Posts: 292
Credit: 41,567,650
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18817 - Posted: 3 Oct 2010 | 18:45:50 UTC - in response to Message 18816.
Last modified: 3 Oct 2010 | 18:57:38 UTC

You're quoting a thread from May 2010. Time doesn't stand still. If anyone asks me about what I would feel to be good value for Q4 2010, I would probably say an AMD CPU, Asrock motherboard, or maybe even a cheap version of a motherboard that uses a Lucid Hydra chip, not because of the mixed GPU capabilities, but simply because you'd get 2 or more PCIe x16 lanes cheap(er), & NVIDIA GTX460(s), for a budget cruncher.
____________

JLConawayII
Send message
Joined: 31 May 10
Posts: 48
Credit: 28,893,779
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18819 - Posted: 4 Oct 2010 | 14:53:23 UTC - in response to Message 18817.

You're quoting a thread from May 2010. Time doesn't stand still.


Right, my bad. The 945 is now $136 instead of $140.

Profile liveonc
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 10
Posts: 292
Credit: 41,567,650
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18820 - Posted: 4 Oct 2010 | 15:29:56 UTC - in response to Message 18819.

You're quoting a thread from May 2010. Time doesn't stand still.


Right, my bad. The 945 is now $136 instead of $140.


& there were tonnes of GTX460's back then too! ;-)

____________

Profile Fred J. Verster
Send message
Joined: 1 Apr 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 35,833,978
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18821 - Posted: 4 Oct 2010 | 18:58:50 UTC - in response to Message 18820.

AMD has some nice 6 core CPU, with a GTX470, you can run several tasks.
SETI@home, f.i.but if mainly interrested in GPUgrid, then a C2D CPU, is sufficient.
I do run SETI Multibeams, MB and I have WIN XP64 rig, with an QX9650 and 1 GTX470 & GTX480 and run 4 SETI CUDA, 2 per card and 4 on CPU.

Does GPUgrid, have an ATI app., maybe later, or just out of the question ;^) ?


____________

Knight Who Says Ni N!

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18822 - Posted: 4 Oct 2010 | 21:06:13 UTC - in response to Message 18821.

I think the more power efficient 6 core AMD has a lot to offer, especially if you run 3 GPUGrid tasks; you can let 3 cores go into Turbo. Alternatively, their tripple core CPUs are good value.

An ATI app is still being developed for here.

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18823 - Posted: 5 Oct 2010 | 12:56:14 UTC - in response to Message 18821.

Does GPUgrid, have an ATI app., maybe later, or just out of the question ;^) ?

They are still working on it ... we may see something fairly soon but so far it does not perform as well as nvidia cards yet ... I think the last report was it was 3 times slower.

____________
Thanks - Steve

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18824 - Posted: 5 Oct 2010 | 15:17:18 UTC - in response to Message 18822.

I think the more power efficient 6 core AMD has a lot to offer, especially if you run 3 GPUGrid tasks; you can let 3 cores go into Turbo. Alternatively, their tripple core CPUs are good value.

Ditto on the AMD Phenom II 6 core, preferably the 95w 1055T. OCs like crazy. TG has it for $190:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6455299&CatId=4431

Team it up with an 890FX MB for a great system. You'll be able to crunch a lot of CPU work while the GPUs do their job...


JLConawayII
Send message
Joined: 31 May 10
Posts: 48
Credit: 28,893,779
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18825 - Posted: 5 Oct 2010 | 16:46:27 UTC - in response to Message 18824.
Last modified: 5 Oct 2010 | 16:54:04 UTC

TigerDirect made an error on their info sheet. The only Thuban core that is 95W is the 2.7GHz 1045T, all the rest are 125W.

edit: There's supposed to be a 2.6GHz 1035T that runs at 95W as well, but I've never actually seen one so w/e.

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18833 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 3:43:08 UTC - in response to Message 18825.

TigerDirect made an error on their info sheet. The only Thuban core that is 95W is the 2.7GHz 1045T, all the rest are 125W.

edit: There's supposed to be a 2.6GHz 1035T that runs at 95W as well, but I've never actually seen one so w/e.

Before correcting someone you should check your facts. Otherwise you just look silly. The 95w 1055T has been out for a while but is often hard to find as it's being sold mostly in Japan (boxed) and to OEMs (unboxed). The OEM part number is HDT55TWFK6DGR (the one at TigerDirect), and the boxed part number is HDT55TWFGRBOX. Here's a review at Hexus:

AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95W CPU review

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=26122

If you're worried that their current stock is not the actual 95w version call their comtomer service and have them doublecheck the part number.


Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18835 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 10:46:41 UTC - in response to Message 18833.

At the present time I think the AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95W CPU offers the best value for money:

In terms of crunching performance it matches an i7-930 (which costs much more), the 1055T uses much less power (35W less), and totally outperforms anything Intel has at the same price (such as the i5-750).

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18837 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 13:48:59 UTC - in response to Message 18835.
Last modified: 6 Oct 2010 | 13:49:26 UTC

At the present time I think the AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95W CPU offers the best value for money:

In terms of crunching performance it matches an i7-930 (which costs much more), the 1055T uses much less power (35W less), and totally outperforms anything Intel has at the same price (such as the i5-750).


Can you link to some testing or project results that prove this out?
I thought the i7-930 was still much better than 1055T for crunching.
____________
Thanks - Steve

Profile Beyond
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 08
Posts: 1112
Credit: 6,162,416,256
RAC: 0
Level
Tyr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18845 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 17:17:14 UTC - in response to Message 18837.

At the present time I think the AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95W CPU offers the best value for money:

In terms of crunching performance it matches an i7-930 (which costs much more), the 1055T uses much less power (35W less), and totally outperforms anything Intel has at the same price (such as the i5-750).

Can you link to some testing or project results that prove this out?
I thought the i7-930 was still much better than 1055T for crunching.

Hope it's OK if I jump in here. Performance depends greatly on the project. On many projects The i7 will out-crunch the Phenoms on a core to core basis. On some projects AMD is king, for instance Yoyo where a $1000 i7-980 Extreme 6/12 core can barely outdo my $90 Athlon II 620 that doesn't even have L3 cache:

http://www.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/top_hosts.php

Notice the i7 920 and i7 930 CPUs are running behind a pile of AMDs. In other projects the opposite is true, just depends on the code.

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18849 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 22:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 18845.

Jumping in is what forums are all about <grin>
~80% of the performance for ~10% of the price ... nice, thanks for the link.
____________
Thanks - Steve

Profile Fred J. Verster
Send message
Joined: 1 Apr 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 35,833,978
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18851 - Posted: 6 Oct 2010 | 23:39:54 UTC - in response to Message 18849.
Last modified: 7 Oct 2010 | 0:07:20 UTC

Jumping in is what forums are all about <grin>
~80% of the performance for ~10% of the price ... nice, thanks for the link.


Depending on the HardWare you've available. Mobo's are very important, as
they form the 'base' of a good computer.(ChipSet, I prefer one without graphics or sound, the X(38-58) type), QPI, DDR2/3,(Low-Latency)SATA600 & RAID 0;1;5, USB3.0. Low budget doesn't mean low RAC, c.q. valid production.
Just have 2 Q6600's, 1 with 2 ATI cards, EAH4850 & EAH5870,
1 Q6600 + GTS250 (only one with VISTA HP 32BIT) and a QX9650, OC'ed a bit (3.4GHz)+ a GTX470 & GTX480, not to forget my HP LT (T2400 Dual-Core).
All O.S.ses are Windows XP x86, except the above mentioned VISTA and 9650 runs
XP64.
Had a look at some stats and noticed, 12 hosts, haven't been able
to merge them, cause they all have 'overlapping lifespan', ofcoarse, if they're used, permanent, just different O.S. When you switched from Windows
to LINUX, tasks done 'under Windows'still have to be validated, while you're already running LINUX and crunching and switch back........


GPUgrid uses the GPU quite well, average load is 55% on the 480 and 65% on the 470. Einstein still has a too low load, so low, that you easily run 8
CUDA 3.1. tasks on a 480, takes more time cause 0.5CPU was used, instead of 1
core. So no 'real' speed-up, 4 tasks a card works, only results, in[i] messages
like please remove the app_info.xml, in order to receive more tasks.
SETI, also has a high load and 2 of them drives the 480 to 98% load.
So I can run 4 CUDA and 4 on CPU.


The fans of those cards can be quite noisy, due to the high airflow (and this rig uses ~600Watt, +/- 15%).
Compaired to my ATI host, which uses 100-50Watts, less and GPU's throtles back to 15%, if no load, more throtling then NVidia, 30% , if no load.

____________

Knight Who Says Ni N!

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18856 - Posted: 7 Oct 2010 | 12:45:42 UTC - in response to Message 18837.

Can you link to some testing or project results that prove this out?
I thought the i7-930 was still much better than 1055T for crunching.

Hi Steve, Unfortunately I cannot even remember which forum I read it in, but I remember the cruncher said he was surprised to find that his 1055T slightly outperformed an i7-930 when crunching at stock.
No dubt an i7-930 would do more work for some projects and for some the 1055T would do more work, but having read some reviews I think it’s reasonable to say they are roughly the same in performance. However, when you consider the price difference and the running cost difference I would say overall the 1055T would be the CPU to get.

I think an i7-875 has a 95W TDP, and would slightly outperform the 1055T for most crunching projects while using slightly less power, but the purchase cost is far too high (around £100 more expensive). As crunching is always horses for courses, all we can do is be generic and vague when talking about CPU crunching performance, unless we list pages of performance data for various task types.

Here are two review links for anyone that is interested,
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1289/5/
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=26122&page=4

Profile liveonc
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 10
Posts: 292
Credit: 41,567,650
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18857 - Posted: 7 Oct 2010 | 13:14:34 UTC - in response to Message 18856.

No dubt an i7-930 would do more work for some projects and for some the 1055T would do more work, but having read some reviews I think it’s reasonable to say they are roughly the same in performance. However, when you consider the price difference and the running cost difference I would say overall the 1055T would be the CPU to get.

I think an i7-875 has a 95W TDP, and would slightly outperform the 1055T for most crunching projects while using slightly less power, but the purchase cost is far too high (around £100 more expensive). As crunching is always horses for courses, all we can do is be generic and vague when talking about CPU crunching performance, unless we list pages of performance data for various task types.


Dealing with estimates & averages is useful, as it gives a rough picture of what is being used without the need to be promoted or adapted. CUDA is still not used by many even though it has a great potential. So if the 1055T is roughly the same for a lesser price of the i7-875 & the power consumption is also roughly the same. It means that BOINC projects are using the strength of what AMD has to offer over the strength of what Intel has to offer on average.
____________

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 18858 - Posted: 7 Oct 2010 | 13:56:26 UTC - in response to Message 18851.
Last modified: 7 Oct 2010 | 15:08:18 UTC

Depending on the HardWare you've available...

Hello Fred. I think the way you configure what you have is also important.

These are two tasks you ran (XPx64, QX9650 @ 3.4GHz):
3098164 1963128 7 Oct 2010 3:10:40 UTC 7 Oct 2010 9:30:33 UTC Completed and validated 9,690.56 1,506.05 4,535.61 6,803.41 ACEMD2: GPU molecular dynamics v6.11 (cuda31)
3096955 1955180 6 Oct 2010 22:57:57 UTC 7 Oct 2010 6:53:23 UTC Completed and validated 13,270.66 793.42 6,016.70 9,025.06 ACEMD2: GPU molecular dynamics v6.11 (cuda31)

And these are two tasks I ran (XPx86, i7-920 @ 2.66GHz Turbo Off, 2 GTX470’s at 715MHz):
3098941 1963560 7 Oct 2010 6:20:54 UTC 7 Oct 2010 11:46:04 UTC Completed and validated 8,381.19 8,389.64 4,535.61 6,803.41 ACEMD2: GPU molecular dynamics v6.11 (cuda31)
3098507 1955896 7 Oct 2010 5:00:13 UTC 7 Oct 2010 11:24:10 UTC Completed and validated 10,311.94 10,319.92 6,016.70 9,025.06 ACEMD2: GPU molecular dynamics v6.11 (cuda31)

Your first task, that ran on your GTX480, is the same type as the first task I ran.
My task ran 15.6% faster on my GTX470.

Your second task that ran on your GTX470 is the same type as the second task I ran.
My task ran 28.7% faster.

While I just overclocked my GPU you OC'd your CPU. But the main reason for the difference is that I leave at least 2 threads free and use swan_sync=0.

Not sure there is much point trying to comparing a 130W CPU, that is overclocked (about 150W @ 3.4GHz) in your dual Fermi rig to either a 95W or 105W Q6600 rig with two different generation ATI cards. The i7-920 however has a TDP of 130W. My i7 rig typically uses just under 500W and my GPU utilization is usually very high. When I have about 83% GPU utilization the power is between 480W and 490W, when it is 98% is can go up to 520W, and when I get the odd slow task it drops to about 470W.

- Agreed Liveonc, for crunching here the GPU is key. While the CPU can make a big difference, any top CPU will do the trick; it matters little if it is AMD or Intel. So the less expensive and more power efficient CPUs are more attractive.

Post to thread

Message boards : Number crunching : Budget Cruncher, need input

//