It is me again..

I thought to make a new thread as it only has sideways to do with GPU's.
It has to do with the new GTX660 not working at maximum load in my PC when I replaced it for the GTX285.
This is the thread where the problems are discused: http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3373

I found a refurbished T7400 with a PSU of 980 Watt, 2 PCI-x16 G2, 1 PCI-x8, 3 PCI-x64 and 1 PCI 32 bit slots, so room for some GPU's. It has two Xeon processors and 2 years warranty and 2 Quadro FX4600 graphics cards, and Win7 professional. The GTX660 should fit easily.

Or I could build a new one with components. But that will cost a lot more.
What is suggested, an AsusRock, EVGA or Intel MOBO?
I live in the Netherlands and all is not so cheap as in the US. I buy often hardware in Germany.
I am interested in ideas for a system for crunching primarily GPUGRID on the GTX660 (two later) and Rosetta and/or Docking on the CPU.

Thanks.
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Greetings from TJ

I guess you are very right ETA, but to late I already ordered it.
Well it is a big case with a big PSU and a lot of space and quit fans.
I can put a new MOBO in it with an six core i7.

This are the graphics cards:
6/7/2013 3:11:35 PM | | CUDA: NVIDIA GPU 0: Quadro FX 4600 (driver version 320.00, CUDA version 5.50, compute capability 1.0, 768MB, 633MB available, 346 GFLOPS peak)
6/7/2013 3:11:35 PM | | OpenCL: NVIDIA GPU 0: Quadro FX 4600 (driver version 320.00, device version OpenCL 1.0 CUDA, 768MB, 633MB available, 346 GFLOPS peak)

I am not getting new work for GPUGRID, so you where right with that as well.
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Greetings from TJ

Yeah thanks, well it runs quit, 270 Watt when idle, 385 Watt when 8 cores crunching Rosetta. I think the case is nice and big that is usable, the rest is... Well you warn me (either did Beyond) but a little to late, the order was on its way. Never mind it was really cheap so no worries.

I thought a six core and then with HT 12, keep 2 for GPUGRID and then 10 cores for Rosetta or Einstein.

What CPU would you suggest? I like a MOBO with room for two GTX660's, 1 SSD and 1 hard disk for the data (BOINC). Simple DVD player and a gold PSU.
And it would be nice if you could give some info about a good CUP cooler/fan. I like Zalman.
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Greetings from TJ

The Xeons are E5430 @2.66 and not to fast. It seems indeed that old stuff uses more power. The system is from May 2008.

I would like a new system to replace my i7 with the "heater". I want two GPU's and an i7 (or Xeon) again with Win7. It will run GPUGRID and Rosetta on the CPU.
But when the system is up and I have to work at home for a few hours, or even a whole day, then I will use that system as well. So it has to be quite decent.
I have already some parts and don't mind if the total price would be 1500-2000 euro in total. I have several systems more than 6 years and run still fine (but not 24/7), that will the new PC don't either.
I need a MOBO a processor, new memory and a good PSU (gold 80+ I guess are good one's) and a good processor cooler.
Perhaps a new case bit I have a Cooler Master with 5 fans (2 150mm and 3 120mm).

Suggestions are welcome, I will not buy the parts tomorrow and will highly consider your thoughts this time...
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Greetings from TJ

I did Rosetta on the Xeons and saw that they used approx. 600 seconds more than an i7 (960@3.20GHz). I know that is not a good comparison.
I checked Intel indeed before I ordered it and saw that they use 80 Watt, that's less than the i7 (960) 144.33 Watt. How is it than possible that it is drawing almost 300Watt, when idle (doing nothing)? Even with the plug in the mains it draws 3 Watt.
The system has 8 1GB hyundai DDR2.

The only GPU I have that can do BOINC projects are AMD HD 5870 (2) they were in the system where now the GTX660 is running.

The T7400 has a PSU of 1000 Watt but only 2 6 pins power for GPU, so only one AMD can be powered.
There are 4 SATA connectors free and 5 SATA power plugs (small, long, black), and only 1 white (large) 4 pin plug. Weird.

I have an SSD, 2 HD's, several fan's and Win7 professional all new, and a case with 5 fan's.
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Greetings from TJ

I did Rosetta on the Xeons and saw that they used approx. 600 seconds more than an i7 (960@3.20GHz). I know that is not a good comparison.

Would be a reasonably good comparison if you mention how long the i7 takes; if it's 30min then the Xeon's are not great, but if it's 10h then the 10min difference is negligible.

The only GPU I have that can do BOINC projects are AMD HD 5870 (2) they were in the system where now the GTX660 is running.
The T7400 has a PSU of 1000 Watt but only 2 6 pins power for GPU, so only one AMD can be powered.

I would put one back in then - it could do way more work than both CC1.0 cards combined.

This also prevents you from using two 4-pin IDE power connectors to hook up another GPU!

I have an SSD, 2 HD's, several fan's and Win7 professional all new, and a case with 5 fan's.

Is that to be used for a new build?

Thanks ETA.

There is only really 1 4 pin molex connector for older devices? Seems weird. These could be used to power GPUs, but you need 2 of them for 1 6-pin GPU onnector (ideally originating from different cables).

How efficient is that 1 kW PSU? Chances are it's not all that bad, if it's been in a high end workstation.

And I second crunching on that HD5870. It's still a very decent card for a few projects, as it packs lot's of raw horse power into a moderately efficient 40 nm chip. Examples: Milkyway, POEM, Einstein (not many credits, though) and probably some more.

Yes, you could put in some large mainboards. However, I wouldn't touch a 6-core for BOINC. As Intel it's too expensive and not energy-efficient enough (still 32 nm Sandy Bridge) and as AMD.. well, no need to discuss that :p MrS

Intel on the desktop: ivy bride runs hotter than sandy bride, the new haswell runs hotter and uses more energy than ivy bridge. Aren't they going in the wrong direction?

Two more questions.
1. I read that GTX660 is not very good at double precision. Suppose GPUGRID has no work for some days or other issues, then I would like to crunch for MilkyWay or Einstein. For MW we need DP, so which cards are good with DP. In other words, which specs I have to look for?

2. Heat. I have RealTemp 3.70 and CPUID Hardware Monitor running and the temperatures RealTemp shows, are 10 degrees lower (colder) of the CPU; 59 57 58 57 to 69 67 68 67. All in Celsius. The CPU is doing Rosetta 1 for GPUGRID and 1 idle.
I also have an Alienware with liquid cooling and temperatures here are even worse, 72 70 71 69. RealTemp and CPUID have the same values though.
This liquid cooling thing is making a lot of noise by the way, a big fan for the radiator. And not cool. Six cores running Rosetta and the GTX660 is doing GPUGRID with 1 core and 1 idle.
The question: what are acceptable CPU temperatures?

I have also good experience with AMD CPU.

@ETA: A brand new computer in a brand new case (if not to expensive), otherwise I have two, a Cooler Master, and the "Big box" indeed.
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Greetings from TJ

Two more questions.
1. I read that GTX660 is not very good at double precision. Suppose GPUGRID has no work for some days or other issues, then I would like to crunch for MilkyWay or Einstein. For MW we need DP, so which cards are good with DP. In other words, which specs I have to look for?

2. Heat. I have RealTemp 3.70 and CPUID Hardware Monitor running and the temperatures RealTemp shows, are 10 degrees lower (colder) of the CPU; 59 57 58 57 to 69 67 68 67. All in Celsius. The CPU is doing Rosetta 1 for GPUGRID and 1 idle.

I also have an Alienware with liquid cooling and temperatures here are even worse, 72 70 71 69. RealTemp and CPUID have the same values though.
This liquid cooling thing is making a lot of noise by the way, a big fan for the radiator. And not cool. Six cores running Rosetta and the GTX660 is doing GPUGRID with 1 core and 1 idle.

The question: what are acceptable CPU temperatures?

Thanks guys, this is good info.
Well this is my first and only liquid cooling. Water feels not that warm.
There where more problems with the Alienware. It is a nice system and my dad bought it for me.
Unfortunately my dad died before the system arrived. I am not into dark magic, but the system had problems from the start. Eventually they sent a complete new one and that ran fine. But temperatures of CPU to high, but 42°C when idle. According to Dell this (high temperatures) is normal...

I will power it down tomorrow and replace the coolant past. I suppose I can safely remove the whole thing on the processor without dismantling the water unit and such? Have never done that before.

Nice program Zoltan, thanks.
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Greetings from TJ

There is more information coming, this is good but makes it more difficult to choose right as well for me.
I found this MOBO: EVGA Classified SR-2 - Mainboard - HPTX, 270-WS-W555-E1.
Okay bit expensive but can fit two CPU's and easily 3 or 4 GPU's.
But isn't it a bit "over the top" for crunching?

I will also do CPU crunching for Rosetta, Docking or Fightmalaria. I have chosen these projects for their cause. So need to be rather fast, but not to expensive and not to much energy. (I have a rather high energy bill, but need way less heating in the winter :) But this is my way to help science to eventually cure some highly affecting diseases.) That was why I was thinking of a six core i7 and then with HT 8 cores for CPU crunching and 4 for GPU crunching and 1 or 2 idle.

For a crunching system I need:
MOBO,
CPU,
Memory,
Hard disk,
PSU,
Case with fans
(CD-ROM/DVD-ROM to install drivers)
And that's it, am I correct?

Should be nice to compare if several people give some ideas about combination of MOBO, CPU and PSU. (GPU will be GTX660 or better if prices fall in the coming weeks months).
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Greetings from TJ

The chip of the CPU series prior to Ivy Bridge (namely Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge-E, Gulftown, Bloomfield) were actually soldered to the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader, the metal housing of the chip) resulting in good thermal transfer to the IHS, and low CPU temperatures. But Intel using some "cheap" thermal interface material (TIM) on the new series, so if you want lower CPU temperatures to overclock more, you should remove the IHS (voiding warranty), and put the CPU cooler directly onto the chip (very risky), and/or use better and/or thinner TIM. See this video.

For crunching the i7-4770K has nothing over i7-3770K. In fact I would say it's just an i7-3770K done all wrong! Seriously, we don't want lots of USB3 ports and another crap iGPU (which hiked the TDP from 77W to 84W).

I measured the actual crunching difference at 4.2GHz of an i7-2600K and an i7-3770K for ~14 CPU projects and there was nothing between them. Only one app from one project was significantly faster (7%), and many were slightly (1 to 3%) faster on the 2600K.

Has AMD any plans to go to PCIE3.0 boards?

@Beyond: because even if you can find a project where AMD CPU provide good performance (you can, as you said), the energy efficiency is far too bad for general 24/7 crunching, compared to Intel. I know there are places where electricity is much cheaper than where I live, but I don't think the Netherlands belong to these. Otherwise I like some of what AMD is doing and whish they could do it even better (sore points: single threaded integer performance of Bulldozer and children, power efficiency, smarter turbo modes to be more specific). MrS

For 1 kWh electricity you have to pay 0,23 eurocent ($0,31/kWh) in the Netherlands. 11 Watts is something like 96 kWh for 1 year (theoretical) full load. And thats more expensive compared to other countries... (I've seen a topic about this??? hmm)

But the TDP number isn't a guide to for what the cpu really uses. The Intel TDP-number is a long-term number for maximum power consumption and has nothing to do with the real maximum power.
Only reallife benchmarks with full load for a similar system (with the same PSU, RAM, GPU, HDD) will give you the real and good numbers for your comparison. I guess you dont buy only a CPU!!! All elements on your total system are important for (full load or any) power consumption (power use from chipsets, vrm's and so on).

Intel will give you not only a more efficient cpu with Haswell, but also built in VRM's, built in north bridge/IMC and a efficient southbridge (32nm vs 65nm).

I pay only 11 eurocent per 1KW during the day and 5 cent at nighttime, in the Netherlands. And the end of the year when the bill arrives there is a tax surcharge for the total amount of electricity used. I use a lot indeed and after final calculation this means, in my case, I have to pay 16.44 eurocent per 1KW. (I use around 1KW per hour, depending if I am free and have several rigs running).

But I don't care about the power consumption. This threat is to get a lot of information about a good rig for GPUGRID and Rosetta (and Einstein, Docking and Malaria as back-up projects).

So I am still waiting for some replay on some of my messages below. But I am patient.
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Greetings from TJ

I pay only 11 eurocent per 1KW during the day and 5 cent at nighttime, in the Netherlands. And the end of the year when the bill arrives there is a tax surcharge for the total amount of electricity used. I use a lot indeed and after final calculation this means, in my case, I have to pay 16.44 eurocent per 1KW. (I use around 1KW per hour, depending if I am free and have several rigs running).

So I am still waiting for some replay on some of my messages below. But I am patient.

With ECS you mean: Elitegroup Computer Systems? I don't think it is to find in the Netherlands. There is not one large store that has everything. There are few on the net, but also limited stock/availability.
I have a PSU from Corsair and that one is indeed very good (with a lot of plugs).

I found a 80 gold PSU from EVGA, and a MOBO from EVGA with good space for three GPU's and of course EVGA GPU's and all to order directly from EVGA in Germany.
And as I like EVGA, I will go for them.
For the CPU I am still thinking but I guess an i7 (6 or 4 core) which uses not to much Watt and Zalman cooler.
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Greetings from TJ

With ECS you mean: Elitegroup Computer Systems?

I found a 80 gold PSU from EVGA, and a MOBO from EVGA with good space for three GPU's and of course EVGA GPU's and all to order directly from EVGA in Germany.
And as I like EVGA, I will go for them.
For the CPU I am still thinking but I guess an i7 (6 or 4 core) which uses not to much Watt and Zalman cooler.

Later today (13 June, or 14 June UTC) I will bring online my new PC.

CPU = AMD FX-8350;
MOBO = ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/GEN3 R2.0;
GPU = ASUS GTX 650 Ti (X2).

The plan for June and July is that one of these will be dedicated to GPUGrid, one to Folding@home and the CPUs to rosetta@home and Drug Search for Leishmaniasis.

My AMD Phenom II 1090T machine is also crunching rosetta@home and Drug Search for Leishmaniasis as well as Folding@home.

Can't wait to get the 8 core working!!

John

That motherboard should be able to handle the just released FX-9590 CPU, I'd like to see how well it does at CPDN.

@TJ

But I don't care about the power consumption. This threat is to get a lot of information about a good rig for GPUGRID and Rosetta (and Einstein, Docking and Malaria as back-up projects).

from Beyond:
Happens to be my favorite CPU project: Yoyo. Energy efficiency? The current Phenom X6 has a TDP of 95w, Haswell is 84w. Whoopie, 11 watts. What's the Netherlands have to do with anything?

@TJ
Your 16,44ct/kWh is minus energy tax? (heffingskorting in Dutch)

I have an quad with 2 nVidia cards with cuda 1.0 so they are obsolete. I have two AMD hd5870 cards left. I can use these for Einstein. But only 2 6 pins power plugs and I need 4. Now the PSU (700Watt) has a very short 8 bus connector free (female connector). I guess I can use an adapter here from 1 8 pins to 2 6 pins pcie? How is such a cable called? I need on quite long or perhaps with an extra extension cable. However I can not find on, but I guess because I don't now how it is called.
Does anyone know what I am talking about? Thanks.
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Greetings from TJ

Thanks ETA, glad you are better again, it was way to warm to be ill a few days ago in our surroundings.

No it is not the same, but this is a Dell too. The other one 1000W is indeed a Gold 80+ but I don't know about its efficiency. I will replace this PSU with a 750W from EVGA, then I have power connectors enough and 90% efficiency. Put the 2 HD5870 in for Einstein and Albert.

Glad to read your advice, I have never seen such a plug. Short wire, long but rather small 8 hole connector. This PSU has only 2 molex free, but I need 4 so I can only put two GPU in there with one 6 pin each (2 GTX660).

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Greetings from TJ

Another question.
The Alienware with the liquid cooling seems to stay pretty hot around 70°C.
So I would like to change it by a Zalman processor cooler and put 2 GTX770 in.
Then I do not need to built a new rig just now, (if I can safe more I can buy better stuff in the winter for lower prices by then (I hope)).
I guess it is safe to take the entire liquid cooler parts out at once? I have inspect the system carefully but rather than a pump on the processor and a radiator in front of a fan there is nothing else. I don't see any reservoir with coolant. Has anyone experience with an Alienware?
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Greetings from TJ

Since the i7-980X there has been little improvement in 'out and out' processing power from either AMD or Intel. Lots of different generations, revisions, sockets, packaging, hype and waffle, but limited performance gain.

Intel and AMD have largely ignored CPU improvement wants from the high end workstation, gaming and crunching markets.

Instead they have sought gains in other areas; more done on the processor, better performance/watt.

At the same time a lot of what we are now working with is the product of marketing strategy; on-die controllers, Intel only chipsets, push towards laptops and portable devices, ...

... fewer PCIE lanes, and the 'shroud of the cloud' (server processors) - all at the expense of high end desktop improvements.

But the same can be said of NVidia and OpenCL - it's typical business maneuvering.

When SB arrived we reached the point where a laptop processor existed that was capable of handling >99% of office performance requirements.

Since Gulftown, Sandy Bridge-E has been Intel's only attempt at a genuine high end workstation/gaming/crunching system, but it failed to deliver PCIE3 and thus failed almost completely - you don't do CAD on the CPU, don't game on the CPU and don't crunch on the CPU (relatively speaking).

For crunching the i7-4770K has nothing over i7-3770K.

In fact I would say it's just an i7-3770K done all wrong! Seriously, we don't want lots of USB3 ports and another crap iGPU (which hiked the TDP from 77W to 84W).

A few questions about processors.
If I search Intel for info I see the following:
Number of cores: 6
Box: no
Bus type: DMI
etc. What does "Box" mean?

How do I know which chipset (thus type MOBO) will fit? Not with all processors they mention the chipset I notice. Do I only have to look for the socket to fit?

This one is available in the Netherlands: Intel Core i7-4770K - 3.5GHz - Socket 1150 - Unlocked. What does that "Unlocked" mean? It is not explained on the site.

Finally I see that in the Netherlands AMD processors are very cheap compared with Intel, could be a factor 3 or 4. Am I right that AMD does not have HT?
Will AMD processors work flawless with nVidia GPU's?
Thanks.
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Greetings from TJ

Well I have one AMD system with AMD CPU and AMD GPU. I use it only for my study and I must say it runs nice, quit and boots fast. I didn't find any problems with it.

I didn't know that it is so important to tell that is is in a box :)
I will use a Zalman CPU cooler.

I found a AMD 8 core black edition 4GHz (125W) for €179 and a comparable (however they can not be compared) Intel 3.5GHz (77W) would cost €305.

I will go for Intel then, first seek a processor and then the MOBO.
However remains my question about the socket and the chipset unanswered.
If a processor needs a 1150 socket and the MOBO has a 1150 socket, then it will fit. But plays the chipset any role? On several retail sites and on Intel's I do not always find info about the chipset. That is way I am asking, as parts that don't work together are easily bought.
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Greetings from TJ

Finally I see that in the Netherlands AMD processors are very cheap compared with Intel, could be a factor 3 or 4. Am I right that AMD does not have HT?
Will AMD processors work flawless with nVidia GPU's?

Concluding then. I'll keep saying this, personally I would have preferred a faster per core performing AMD quad-core processor rather then an eight-core processor with reduced nice per core performance. However we do have to be clear here, we have been working with the FX 8350 processor for a while now and it simply is a great experience overall. Your system is very fast, feels snazzy and responsive. The Achilles heel simply remain single threaded applications. The problem here is that it effects game performance quite a bit, especially with high-end dedicated graphics cards and that's why in it's current form the FX series simply is not that popular amongst the gaming community.

However when multi-threading kicks in wheter that is a game or application ... that loss is turned around in a gain.

Everybody seems to forget one big glaring development, Jim Keller is back at AMD and there's going to be 1 maybe 2 more CPU upgrades for the socket AM3+.
Ya,ya,ya, just another AMD fanboy spouting off, I've already seen a leaked partially redrawn Steamroller core die shot (socket AM3+), so he's hard at work. That was the one and only reason that sold me on AMD years ago, is the upgrade path with their motherboards, they stick with the same socket for a long time (even AM3 CPU's work in the AM3+).

I'm not trying to start nothing here, I just get tired of AMD being treated like it's a dirty word. I think after what Intel just released, it's to big of a carrot for Jim not to jump on it and make up all the lost ground.

Edit: I mean Jim Keller, sorry about that.

Honestly, I do not know much about Computer Science and if would not be for BOINC, I still would not read about it.

But I do know, that I am use all cores or threads (HT) for BOINC on all my computers all the time and if I do have a GPU in the computer, I will have one thread / core reserved feeding it.

So at the end, I am not very concerned about the single thread capabilities of one of the CPU makers, in my case all cores or threads are always 100% charged / occupied and one maker is a lot cheaper, helps keeping the price of CPUs in check, uses the same motherboard for various generations. Or do I miss something? Although I still do have one question mark: The TDP thing, it seems to me that there is a slightly difference of it’s definition between the two competitors, which does not help to compare this important specification of each CPU. But on the other hand is quite similar for more or less the same throughput, isn’t it?

Or do I miss something?

Or do I miss something?

What you're missing is, that higher per-thread performance means higher overall performance. Especially for distributed computing projects, like BOINC, that utilize all available computing power, this means you'll get significantly more work done.

For crunching, I think AMD just can't beat Intel right now. The only AMDs I'd pick would be 8-cores, but again they're not real 8-core, they are 4-core with double integer units *, making for half-8-core, if such a term is valid. So, don't really know how they would fare against Intel 4-cores at similar frequencies.

* maybe other core parts as well

For crunching, I think AMD just can't beat Intel right now. The only AMDs I'd pick would be 8-cores, but again they're not real 8-core, they are 4-core with double integer units *, making for half-8-core, if such a term is valid. So, don't really know how they would fare against Intel 4-cores at similar frequencies.

The Phenom X6 is also slightly faster on Einstein, my main project.
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Greetings from TJ

"8 integer cores and 4 floating point cores" - Now there's a good description, and explanation as to why the Phenom X6 processors outperform the latest 8-core AMD processors for floating point apps.

Which of the Yoyo apps does the 1045T perform best at?

"The Phenom X6 is also slightly faster on Einstein, my main project".

Both.
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Greetings from TJ

OK, I spent some time looking at BOINCstats CPU break-downs to get as clear a picture of CPU performance as I can. First of all, I looked at not only Yoyo, but also WCG and SETI, as Yoyo is really a niche project with only ~3700 hosts vs ~216000 of WCG and ~207000 of SETI. Yoyo and WCG run apps of various kinds, so they should reflect overall CPU performance adequately well. SETI is more specific, but should also help.

Then I had some difficulty choosing the column(s) to sort CPUs by, as I wanted to take out historical, populative and usage (how many hours per day of BOINC execution) factors. Total credit is populative, historical and usage-dependent, Average credit is populative and usage-dependent, Credit per CPU is historical and usage-dependent, Average credit per CPU is usage-dependent. That leaves us with Average credit per CPU second, which sounds like independent of these three factors.

For Yoyo, here are the first 20 CPUs(link):

1 Cell Broadband Engine [Model 0 ]
2 Cell Broadband Engine
3 AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 265 Processor
4 PS3Cell Broadband Engine
5 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-2405S CPU @ 2.50GHz
6 AMD Phenom(tm) II X2 521 Processor
7 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-2550K CPU @ 3.40GHz
8 Genuine Intel(R) CPU @ 2.90GHz
9 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 Extreme CPU X9775 @ 3.20GHz
10 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz
11 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1275 V2 @ 3.50GHz
12 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz
13 AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 B50 Processor
14 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5205 @ 1.86GHz
15 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-2500 CPU @ 3.30GHz
16 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31220 @ 3.10GHz
17 AMD Phenom(tm) II N620 Dual-Core Processor
18 AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 B95 Processor
19 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-3470S CPU @ 2.90GHz
20 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-3570 CPU @ 3.40GHz

Here are the top 20 CPUs for WCG (link):

1 IntelQEMU Virtual CPU version 0.9.0
2 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 Quad CPU @ 3.20GHz
3 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5-2300 CPU @ 2.80GHz
4 AMDQEMU Virtual CPU version 0.9.1
5 Genuine Intel(R) CPU 0 @ 2.70GHz
6 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5270 @ 3.50GHz
7 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5492 @ 3.40GHz
8 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 Extreme CPU X9750 @ 3.16GHz
9 Intel(R) Core(tm) i7 CPU X 995 @ 3.60GHz
10 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3380 @ 3.16GHz
11 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3113 @ 3.00GHz
12 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5677 @ 3.47GHz
13 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 CPU T6600 @ 2.20GHz
14 Intel(R) Core(tm) i5 CPU S 750 @ 2.40GHz
15 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3370 @ 3.00GHz
16 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 Duo CPU E8435 @ 3.06GHz
17 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5272 @ 3.40GHz
18 Intel(R) Core(tm) CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz
19 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5482 @ 3.20GHz
20 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5470 @ 3.33GHz

Here's the list for SETI (link):

1 Intel(R) Core(tm) CPU 975 @ 3.33GHz
2 Intel(R) Core(tm) CPU 960 @ 3.20GHz
3 AMDAthlon 64 Dual Core 4200+
4 AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual Core Processor 6850e
5 Intel[EM64T Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10]
6 [Intel64 Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10]
7 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core CPU 4400+
8 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5240 @ 3.00GHz
9 AMD Sempron(tm) Dual Core Processor 4700
10 AMD Phenom(tm) Ultra X4 22000 Processor
11 Intel(R) Core(tm) CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz
12 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU L3110 @ 3.00GHz
13 Genuine Intel(R) CPU 000 @ 2.93GHz
14 AMD[x86 Family 15 Model 107 Stepping 2]
15 Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 2358 SE
16 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz
17 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5272 @ 3.40GHz
18 Genuine Intel(R) CPU 000 @ 3.20GHz
19 Intel(R) Core(tm) i7 CPU 965 @ 3.20GHz
20 Intel(R) Core(tm)2 Extreme CPU X9000 @ 2.80GHz

I haven't included the credit numbers, as credit is dependent on the project, so the values themselves wouldn't contribute to valid comparisons. Besides, the numbers are there in the BOINCstats site for everybody to see. Obviously, there are other factors that shape the lists and that we can't control: overclocking, memory speeds, heat-induced clock throttling, etc.

Here's what I make from these lists: SETI appears to utilize AMD CPUs well, although the top AMD, which is the ancient X2 4200+ (which I had myself before replacing with my i7-870!), comes at third place. WCG, with its massive population and wide application range, clearly shows Intel as the winner. Finally, Yoyo gives the win to the PS3 with its Cell 9(?)-core processor and seems to favor AMDs slightly.

So I say that my conclusion holds still: for crunching in general, Intel is better than AMD.
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For Yoyo, there are several apps and BOINCstats doesn't reveal which were being crunched by which processor.

The Cell processors are basically a cross between a CPU and a GPU, so they don't make for good comparisons. You certainly can't plug an NVidia GPU into one, so it's irrelevant for here.

The credit/h at WCG can vary by >10% depending on what CPU you have and what project you crunch for. Historically WCG has usually had 6 or 7 active projects. At present it's closer to two projects. Their apps and relative contributions to projects varies significantly.

The results are for 'logical cores'. So an i7 will be seen as having 8 processors, while an Athlon X2 265 will be seen as two processors. Each core of the Athlon may get 0.03 credits per second, but the processor gets 0.06 credits per second as a whole. An i7-3970X gets 0.019585 credits per thread. So 0.15668 credits/second for the entire processor (~2.5times more than the X2 265).

The only accurate way to measure performance is to base it on run time at reference/stock speeds per project. Then compile a list of results to show what the relative performances of each CPU (not core/thread) is like. After that you can look at performance/Watt, and then performance/system-Watt.

Ultimately if you want to crunch on a GPU, it's better to spend the money on the GPU(s) than the CPU.

Vagelis, sorry you went to all this work but these charts are obviously useless. They contain info from various apps over the years that are no longer used and had cell and GPU clients and apps that once had much higher credit awards. In some cases in the past cheating was commonplace and rampant. For instance, a core2 host in SETI or WCG running a GPU would score much higher than an i7 without a GPU. These charts include those cases. There is no useful information to be gained from these. Even a cursory glance reveals that they make no sense. Sorry...

I thought I replace the liquid cooler in the Alienware but the 3 I have don't fit. Hight is not a problem it is its wideness. Small room so a round pump fits nice. Seems they have thought about that :) Well then new thermal paste and the old stuff seems the be applied little. Now cool when running GPU (2) only, but quickly rising to 83°C when crunching on 6 cpu cores. I run now one at a time (at 75°C) and when finished I will replace once more another paste (the best I can get from were I work).

But I need (want) a new system soon and perhaps I can make a deal with the lady. However a question, I guess for Beyond (he will be smiling). I found an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2 and a FX8350, together less than an i7 with 3.5GHz!
Enough space for 1 GTX690 or 2 GTX660 (with a slot free). I found Kingston blue memory 2 times 8Gb at 1600MHz. That works on the MOBO but I can not find on AMD's site if it works with the CPU. Will it?

Edit: I also see that the Kernel times (red) are high(er) on the Alienware than this morning when it ran with one GTX660, and the old thermal paste.
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Greetings from TJ

But I need (want) a new system soon and perhaps I can make a deal with the lady. However a question, I guess for Beyond (he will be smiling). I found an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2 and a FX8350, together less than an i7 with 3.5GHz!
Enough space for 1 GTX690 or 2 GTX660 (with a slot free). I found Kingston blue memory 2 times 8Gb at 1600MHz. That works on the MOBO but I can not find on AMD's site if it works with the CPU. Will it?

I found Kingston blue memory 2 times 8Gb at 1600MHz. That works on the MOBO but I can not find on AMD's site if it works with the CPU. Will it?

Thanks, I will do that, but I think it will take a few months before the new system is ready to build.
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Greetings from TJ

While checking a few things I saw that the T7400 has 7 slots, only 2 PCIE that will needed but also with no space in between. Thus this large case is small after all and my mis-bought of the year. It is pointless to install a new PSU in it and will consider it as a loss.

Looking for a new case, they are all small or can fit a cooler with a height slightly under 15cm. The Cosmos II seems large enough but will not fit under my desk and is quite expensive.

Then the MOBO with space for two GPU's and space in between. Also tricky or they become expensive.
@Zoltan, as I see you have rigs with 2 GPU and I suppose you want a free slot in between, which MOBO's do you have that apply this? For a new Intel build.
Will go for the AMD with Sabertooth first, but just in case.

@Beyond, all I can find is Kingston 1.6 or 1.65V memory. It is possible that not everything can be obtained in the Netherlands. We dozens of shops and they have little from a lot of brands with a large price span. Sometimes I find stuff in Germany not all send it abroad. From the US can, but will be very expensive due to transport and customs, I have experienced in the past. Perhaps I can place a memory cooler as well. I saw some things from Zalman, to adjust all the fans from a front panel.
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Greetings from TJ

@Beyond, all I can find is Kingston 1.6 or 1.65V memory. It is possible that not everything can be obtained in the Netherlands. We dozens of shops and they have little from a lot of brands with a large price span. Sometimes I find stuff in Germany not all send it abroad. From the US can, but will be very expensive due to transport and customs, I have experienced in the past. Perhaps I can place a memory cooler as well. I saw some things from Zalman, to adjust all the fans from a front panel.

Vagelis, sorry you went to all this work but these charts are obviously useless. They contain info from various apps over the years that are no longer used and had cell and GPU clients and apps that once had much higher credit awards. In some cases in the past cheating was commonplace and rampant. For instance, a core2 host in SETI or WCG running a GPU would score much higher than an i7 without a GPU. These charts include those cases. There is no useful information to be gained from these. Even a cursory glance reveals that they make no sense. Sorry...

I found this at Amazon: Kingston KHX16LC9X3K4/16X Arbeitsspeicher 16GB (1600MHz, CL9, 4x 4GB, DIMM 1,35V) DDR3-RAM Kit, so that would be okay.
Indeed the sabertooth is nicely spaced I will order that today as I see that their stock is going down.

Last night my Alienware shut down (I did set in Core Temp to shut it down when reaching 82°C. So the Arctic Silver is not good the the liquid cooling.
I will replace it later as the last Nathan is finished. CPU crunching is not possible now. Shame that I can't find a small CPU cooler with a fan that fit in the space provided. The MOBO is quite high mounted in the case to it will reach the top of it.
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Greetings from TJ

Vagelis, your list has this Xeon L5638 @ 2.00GHz as the top CPU, yet it's really very slow:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+L5638+%40+2.00GHz

Your list has the i5-2405S @ 2.50GHz running faster than the i5-2550K @ 3.40GHz or the i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz. No i7 CPUs at all? What? Did you even look at your list? Seems not.

Pretty silly list, isn't it?

Vagelis, sorry you went to all this work but these charts are obviously useless. They contain info from various apps over the years that are no longer used and had cell and GPU clients and apps that once had much higher credit awards. In some cases in the past cheating was commonplace and rampant. For instance, a core2 host in SETI or WCG running a GPU would score much higher than an i7 without a GPU. These charts include those cases. There is no useful information to be gained from these. Even a cursory glance reveals that they make no sense. Sorry...

The results are pretty clear, to me at least: Intel dominates Yoyo! Yes, if you own Yoyo's top or second top host, you may have a different opinion, but try to think about the general case: in general, Intel crunches better!

http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49&v=t

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/20/nvidia-amd-and-via-quit-bapco-over-sysmark-2012/

Hi Guys, can we please keep this thread about hardware? That was the reason I started it. Okay CPU is also hardware, but please start a new thread about CPU comparison. Thank you.

And to the hardware. I have use other heat paste on the Alienware. It has now one GTX660, running with 93% load at 74°C and 74% fan speed (maximum). Perhaps to thick? The stuff did nice flow smooth from itself.

But worse it is now crunching one Nathan and 2 Rosies on the CPU. CPU is between 69-80°C. So I guess the Alienware will soon die. It will Kill itself or shut dowm when 82°C is reached.

The other GTX660 is in the other box (with all the problems with the first card) and does a short run now. It seems to be the same problems as before. Kernel times are almost the same as CPU usage. So when finished the GTX660 goes in the box and I put the GTX285 back in do some MilkyWay.
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Greetings from TJ

Then the Thread should be renamed to GPU Hardware Questions. So it is legitim to talk about CPUs in a HARDWARE QUESTION Thread in my opinion :P
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DSKAG Austria Research Team: http://www.research.dskag.at

Hi Guys, can we please keep this thread about hardware? That was the reason I started it. Okay CPU is also hardware, but please start a new thread about CPU comparison. Thank you.

And to the hardware. I have use other heat paste on the Alienware. It has now one GTX660, running with 93% load at 74°C and 74% fan speed (maximum). Perhaps to thick? The stuff did nice flow smooth from itself.

But worse it is now crunching one Nathan and 2 Rosies on the CPU. CPU is between 69-80°C. So I guess the Alienware will soon die. It will Kill itself or shut dowm when 82°C is reached.

The other GTX660 is in the other box (with all the problems with the first card) and does a short run now. It seems to be the same problems as before. Kernel times are almost the same as CPU usage. So when finished the GTX660 goes in the box and I put the GTX285 back in do some MilkyWay.

[quote] TJ, when you asked the magical question: "What CPU would you suggest?" all heck broke loose :-)

And to the hardware. I have use other heat paste on the Alienware. It has now one GTX660, running with 93% load at 74°C and 74% fan speed (maximum). Perhaps to thick? The stuff did nice flow smooth from itself.

Something is wrong, is the HS/fan seated properly? I'd drop the CPU WUs until you get it worked out. You could also try opening the case and aim a fan at it for now.

A question for system builders.
I have read some manuals about applying thermal grease to the CPU. A big drop in the middle and then spread out with an old bank card. Is that indeed what you do?

I have it spread very evenly in the past with the syringe it is in. The more expensive stuff then automatically flowed out like one smooth surface, but could be thick.
In a movie I saw that after spreading it out with the bank card that you could see the metal again. Is that okay?

I ask this because I get some coolers tomorrow and hope one will fit on the Alienware to replace it not functioning liquid cooler.

Thanks for the info, really reading with high interest.

More questions will follow in the coming days...
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Greetings from TJ

A question for system builders.
I have read some manuals about applying thermal grease to the CPU. A big drop in the middle and then spread out with an old bank card. Is that indeed what you do?

A question for system builders.
I have read some manuals about applying thermal grease to the CPU. A big drop in the middle and then spread out with an old bank card. Is that indeed what you do?

I've read the same stuff and tried a lot of ways myself. What works for me is to apply a thin layer to the whole surface of the CPU then put a rice sized drop in the middle before attaching the HS/fan. Sometimes it takes a few days before optimum temps are reached, but it should be close to target from the start. If not, the HS/fan is probably not seated well.

What do you use Beyond?