I would like to have a go at replacing my four-year-old+ Dell XPS 435 with a home-built (i.e. me-built!) system. The Dell has but one PCIe x16 socket and I have a spare GPU that's sitting in its box doing nothing.

This is new territory for me but here is what I think I need:

• A mother board that supports two wide Nvidia GPUs and a fast Intel i5 processor. Initially the GPUs will be modest but, as funds become available, I would replace them with the latest whiz-bang Nvidia offerings; GPUGrid is my priority.
  
• Two hard drives, two DVDs and an SSD for Windows (7...)
  
• A PSU to support the above
  
• A box to put it all in, with minimum two USB ports on the front (lots on the back!) and great cooling!.
  

I live in France so parts sourcing would have to be Europe.

I do hope this hits many of you who have been down the home-grown path before!

Thanks, Tom


____________

I just built a new system, based on AMD FX 8350 8 core CPU. It uses an ASRock 990FX Extreme3 with 3 PCIe slots (two @ 16x and one @ 8x). I use my older GTX 560 and GT 440 cards but only the GTX 560 crunches for GPUGRID as the 440 is somewhat underpowered, though it crunches Milkyway and Einstein. I live in Belgium and payed for the mobo 100€ while the CPU costs me 188€. PSU, HDD, Case and DVD come from my old system so I just reuse them

I have little experience with modern Intel CPUs so can't comment on them much. What I do know is that the AMDs are better at multi-threaded tasks. So if you use them, like I do for audio/video encoding besides number crunching, AMD will not only be 10-15% faster but also a lot cheaper.
____________

Team Belgium

Here is a lot of information, if you like some reading.

BTW: Amazon.de is some nice prices for parts, I bought a few there and via the link of this site you fund the project a little as well.
I guess you have a link to Amazon.fr?
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Greetings from TJ

We can give better advice if we know what you intend to use your new system for. So far you have told us you will be using it to crunch mostly GPUgrid. What else do you intend to use it for? Do you do video/photo editing? Gaming? Develop software? Compose music (MIDI stuff or whatever they do these days)?

I ask because if it's for general web surfing, email, skype then why do you need 2 HDD, 2 DVD and an SSD? Unless you intend to keep lots of files and need super fast access maybe you don't need that. Do you intend to burn lots of music files and duplicate DVDs? If not then why 2 DVD?

Cooling.... If you install a video card that vents hot air into the case you create big cooling headaches. Select a GPU that vents the hot air out of the case. You'll spend a lot less on additional case fans and other cooling solutions if you do it that way. If you decide to go with a card that vents air into the case then buy a case that already case holes drilled and grills for additional fans because you'll need them. Or maybe you have the tools to cut and drill the holes yourself.

____________
BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Humble apologies! I subscribed to this thread but have yet to get any email notification of your postings! Sorry.

First, your questions / comments:

Yes - I use Amazon France (free shipping!) but I'll certainly check out Amazon Germany.

No - nothing I run, apart from BOINC, puts a great demand on the processor. I do a bit of Office, email and lots of surfing. I like two hard drives so I can clone C: every night but two DVD drives is a bit over the top. And an SSD is a nice-to-have only.

I came to the conclusion that AMD offers a better bang for the buck so that's what I've looked at.

OK, here's what I've been thinking these past 10 days:

I want to do more for GPUGrid. Right now my ASUS GTX 660 does two long runs every 24 hours. I have a GTX 460 sitting its box that will do one in 24 hours but I only have one PCIe x16 slot. Over time I want to invest in more powerful GPUs so the plan is to build a system that has enough oomph for that future.

My thoughts at the moment are:

1. AMD rather than Intel; better bang for the buck.
2. Mobo with four PCIe x16 slots
3. A case that fits under my desk and will support water cooling (if needed...)
4. 1000W PSU

Here's my first stab at a configuration with parts from Amazon France:



Not cheap!

I have a GSO 9600 somewhere. Perhaps, for starters, I could use that for the video and, if I can keep the total spend to €1,000 I could add a second GTX 660 (€159). That would let me do five WUs/24 hours. To do that I would need to cut back on the configuration:

1. The case is a given, methinks
2. A more modest CPU?
3. Fan rather than water cooling?
4. A less powerful PSU?
5. Slower RAM?
6. Perhaps there's a more modest mobo that would still deliver for three top-end (future...) GPUs.

Note above that I have no ideas about the paste to use between the CPU and its cooler...

Tom

Just checked out Amazon Germany prices.

Total is €981.47 vs. Amazon France's €918.52. And I doubt I'd get free shipping from Germany!

Tom

Hi Tom,

I get free shipping from Amazon.de to the Netherlands.
A MOBO with 4 PCIe buses is expensive and in my opinion not handy. If you put 4 GPU's in , they will almost tough each other with heat build up.
I have a PC with the same AMD processor but used this MOBO:
ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 - Socket AM3+ - ATX with currently a price of 145 Euri in Netherlands.
I have never seen that one of my rigs has used more than 5GB of RAM, so I now use only 8GB (2x4) 1600 that is around 85 Euri, so you could safe there.
1000W PSU sounds good to me.

But wait to what others will advice you and chose what you like best.
____________
Greetings from TJ

You may consider the ASRock 990FX Extreme3. It costs 99.95 euro's (in Belgium) and has 3 PCIe slots. It's a very decent mobo in my experience, despite its "cheaper" price. Its UEFI BIOS is also nicely laid out. That mobo unofficially supports up to 64GB RAM. I say unofficially because ASRock says it needs to bring out a new BIOS version to support that much memory, but it's only willing to do so when 16GB modules become available so it can verify they are compatible. Without a new BIOS, the mobo officially supports 32GB.

Also, good choice on the FX 8350. I have exact the same one :)
____________

Team Belgium

Tomba,

I'm not sure how much of the following info you are already aware of but I have explained in some detail so that other crunchers who are as new to this game as I am can learn too. As always, i hope the gurus are checking the details so that I can verify whether or not I have actually figured this stuff out correctly, especially how the PCIe lanes work.

The easy stuff first... the paste. AFAIK, the best paste these days apparently contains silver. Silver is expensive but since it's the least expensive part of building a rig and a small tube goes a long way it probably makes sense to buy the best. I use whatever I can find when I need it even if it's the cheapest stuff on the market because it works well enough for me. Remember the best paste in the world is no better than cheap paste if your cooling system is poorly designed to begin with. If you understand and use the implications of the Laws of Thermodynamics you'll get excellent results even with cheap paste.

I was preaching the benefits of a future proof system a couple weeks ago but as usual skgiven has given me good reason to rethink that. I didn't realize just how expensive future proof can be. Also, since then I have been monitoring resource usage on my two rigs and I see now that what skgiven has repeated frequently is true... today's GPUgrid tasks don't need massive CPU power, fast PCIe or lots of RAM on the GPU card. What they do need is good cooling. The two mobos I am using are old and have only PCIe generation 1.0 but my tests have shown that two GPUgrid tasks running simultaneously on my GTX 660TI pin the GPU to 99% usage continuously but never use more than 40% of the PCIe capacity! So, IMHO, unless you plan on 3 X GTX 690, PCIe gen 2.0 is more than adequate and PCIe gen 3.0 is expensive overkill at this time and may very well be for several (?) more years. When PCIe 2.0 becomes inadequate and PCIe 3.0 is a necessity, mobos with 3.0 will probably be much cheaper than they are now. But who can be certain of the future?

Here is the important part for you (possibly)

You've stated you want a mobo with 4 X PCIe X16 slots. The ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z you are considering has four slots that will accept PCIe x16 cards but only three are double width slots which means you would be able to put only three GTX 660 (or similar vintage) cards on that mobo. If you were to put a GTX 660 in the third slot it would cover the fourth slot. That is apparent from the picture of the mobo at the above link.

Not sure if you're aware of this next part. If you are then maybe it will help somebody else. The PCIe specs for the ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z state:

3 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (dual x16 or x16/x8/x8)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x1
1 x PCI

A good sum up Dagorath but I have some comments.
A GTX690 has 2 processors so it is in fact a dual card. With Windows you can only run 2 of these (4 GPU's in total). For more you need to go to Linux or something else.
With 3 cards you need to alter the BIOS first, on most MOBO's.

A lot of people suggest to use an open case. I do not agree. If you have a close case (side panels on) that will work as a funnel. Dell workstation have even an extra device over the processor with a fan that is a close system and works as a funnel with a sort Venturi effect. There is only a heat sink mounted on the CPU's (mostly two Xeon's) with only one fan and operates cooler and more silent then some rigs I built myself. I have checked it with a special thermometer with multiple sensors. A close system is cooler, especially when ambient temperature is high.
If you open the case and place a blower at it, then it will become another story.
By the way; most of my rigs stand under my desk with no problems.

Finally there is a lot written about single and dual (or triple) GPU fans. I have a 770 which has two fans. So one troughs heat out and the other puts it into the system. This card however runs GPUGRID at 63°C (or lower).
In the same system I have a 780Ti with one fan. This one runs at 72°C because I have set the maximum temperature to 72°C with GPUTweak. If I don't do that it goes to 80°C easily (what I don't like). So from experience next time I will buy a EVGA 780TI with two fans.

This is however my opinion. But same as you I like to learn as well. So I will read other posts with great interest.
____________
Greetings from TJ

Good points TJ :)

Funny, as I was composing my previous post and recommending an open case, I was thinking of Dell machines. I have peeked inside several different Dells and have come to admire the engineering in their cooling system. I agree, the funnel/venturi is an excellent idea and so simple. I don't know why other manufacturers haven't imitated it. Patent maybe?

A similar idea to Dell's... back in the mid 1990's one could buy well made, flexible plastic duct with flanges, mounting holes and screws all correctly sized for standard computer fan dimensions. The idea was to attach one end to the fan on the CPU heatsink and the other end to the case to provide a constant flow of cool(er) air directly onto the CPU with no mixing of the cool(er) air with hot air in the case. For some reason that idea didn't seem to catch on and I haven't seen those ducts anywhere for years which is sad. I would buy several if I knew of a source. I don't like having my case open either but I prefer to build my own rigs as opposed to buying pre-built so an open case is an easy/inexpensive option.

Thanks for your comments on GTX 690. I knew they were a dual GPU design (2 X 680 I believe) but that's about all I knew. Your comments fill in some missing information which is good because my ultimate goal was to have 4 X 690 on a single mobo. Seems I must lower my expectation to only three though they'll probably be up to 990 or 1090 before I can afford it.
____________
BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Many many thanks for all the insights you guys have provided. I'm grateful.

My planned configuration has changed! See the blue rows. Only the case and PSU are as before.



Mobo: I took heed of the warnings about four GPU slots; their performance and cooling. I'm now at three.

CPU: I'm down from 4.0 GHz to 3.5 GHz. The price drop was worth while.

CPU Cooler: Now a fan rather than water cooling. The one I chose was not the cheapest but it gets excellent ratings.

RAM: Down from 16GB to 8GB.

Paste: Added the most popular one.

GPU: I ADDED a new GTX 660.

I ran the PSU calculator (good tip!). With three modest GPUs I got 700W. Replacing two of them with top-end GPUs I got 876W and a recommendation for a 1000W PSU. Spot on!

So - I went from €925 to €845 AND I get another GTX 660! Can't be bad...

Thanks again everyone. Tom

An air duct, that was the word I was thinking of but could not get into mind. So thanks Dagorath. The Alienware now from Dell has such an air duct over the GPU's. Only two will fit and then with a front fan it blows directly into the duct while another fan cools the rest of the case
____________
Greetings from TJ

One more thing Tom,

Amazon.fr is indeed a nice place to buy, but I have seen that some things at Amazon.de are more expensive then some dedicated computer hardware internet shops. So I compare with a few large one in the Netherlands. Do not know about these in France but they must exists. Perhaps you can check a few, and a 660Ti might be available for the same price and is faster.

Good luck with your new machine.
____________
Greetings from TJ

One more thing Tom,

Amazon.fr is indeed a nice place to buy, but I have seen that some things at Amazon.de are more expensive then some dedicated computer hardware internet shops. So I compare with a few large one in the Netherlands. Do not know about these in France but they must exists. Perhaps you can check a few, and a 660Ti might be available for the same price and is faster.

Good luck with your new machine.

A GTX690 has 2 processors so it is in fact a dual card. With Windows you can only run 2 of these (4 GPU's in total). For more you need to go to Linux or something else.
With 3 cards you need to alter the BIOS first, on most MOBO's.

Finally there is a lot written about single and dual (or triple) GPU fans. I have a 770 which has two fans. So one troughs heat out and the other puts it into the system. This card however runs GPUGRID at 63°C (or lower).
In the same system I have a 780Ti with one fan. This one runs at 72°C because I have set the maximum temperature to 72°C with GPUTweak. If I don't do that it goes to 80°C easily (what I don't like). So from experience next time I will buy a EVGA 780TI with two fans.

@TJ:

That's another good example of good Dell innovation and engineering. I hope it sells well for them. I agree with your recommendation of 660TI over 660. For just a little more money you get a big increase in performance.

@tomba:

Consider saving the cost of Windows and install Linux instead. Linux will give you 11% shorter run times compared to Win 7/8. If you intend to keep your current Windows rig you could use it for web surfing and non-crunching activity. I'll guide you through the installation, setup and configuration every step of the way and I'm sure other Linux users will help too. It's not nearly as difficult as many people think. Eventually you'll get rid of Windows completely and wonder why you didn't do it sooner. You might be able to get a nice UPS for what you would spend on Windows.

@Retvari:

Thanks for sharing your considerable wisdom with 690 cards and the problems associated with different fan types. I spent many years as a welder where I built numerous different things, from metal and glass furniture to bridges. I love building custom solutions for problems that don't have a solution one can purchase off the shelf. If I had 4 X 690 on one mobo, each with a radial fan between the two GPUs I would fashion a custom duct out of thin cardboard that would fasten to the back side of each card to collect the hot air from all of them and carry it outside the case. The proper name for such a structure is "exhaust manifold" and of course every gasoline/diesel powered vehicle has at least one. A manifold could also be made out of the thin, flexible kitchen cutting boards one can find in stores. I am a fanatic about not allowing hot air to escape into the case. Collect it ASAP and send it out the case. Balsa wood is another material that is very easy to cut and fashion into small shapes. My friend makes amazing shapes out of paper that he later coats with epoxy to give it strength and rigidity.

Send me a photo and I'll tell you what to measure and how to measure it. Or send me a dimensioned drawing. I'll make you a custom manifold out of plastic, steel, aluminum, wood, leather, fiberglass, epoxy reinforced paper, anything except concrete. I hate concrete.

____________
BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

@TJ:

I agree with your recommendation of 660TI over 660. For just a little more money you get a big increase in performance.

Here I read that the 660TI is but 4% points better than the 660:

I often go looking for bargains - earlier this year I acquired 2 Crosshair IV Formula motherboards for less than the price of one more recent Crosshair V.

Nearly there! Funding approved by she who must be obeyed...

My biggest concern has been mounting a CPU cooler but I found this video, a step-by-step guide to installing my chosen cooler. I noted the materials used and bought them yesterday. See the blue rows in the table. I think I got a great deal on the actual cooler; €28.87 with free shipping, from a French supermarket chain - here.



Somehow an SSD crept in there but, with tongue in cheek, I can claim the total is under €1000...

A niggle is that the mobo and case must come from Amazon traders. I'm thinking about ordering them first, followed by the Amazon order when I see the whites of their eyes.

Tom

@tomba:

Consider saving the cost of Windows and install Linux instead. Linux will give you 11% shorter run times compared to Win 7/8. If you intend to keep your current Windows rig you could use it for web surfing and non-crunching activity. I'll guide you through the installation, setup and configuration every step of the way and I'm sure other Linux users will help too. It's not nearly as difficult as many people think. Eventually you'll get rid of Windows completely and wonder why you didn't do it sooner. You might be able to get a nice UPS for what you would spend on Windows.

Lovely machine, Tomba.

The only changes I would make would be using Ubuntu and installing an FX-8350 CPU. Alas, funding authority has nixed the proposed new build for now. :(

The only changes I would make would be using Ubuntu and installing an FX-8350 CPU.

Thanks for that, Dagorath. I like the idea of shorter run times but, this being my first build, I think it unwise to implement a new opsys now. And I do have a "free" copy of Win7 available, i.e. paid for long ago and written off.

Perhaps you could point me at a rundown on the differences between your preferred Linux and Win7?

I agree Bob, your team's code would improve our opsys, good job. To keep revenues up we cannot offer that as a free update/upgrade so we'll hold it back for now and include it in the next version along with other things our loyal suckers... ooops! I mean loyal users... have been brainwashed to want, and we'll charge them ummm... errrr... hmmmm... call in the marketing people and lawyers and ask them what they think our loyal suckers... ooops! I mean loyal users... will be able to afford next time then add 25% to that. Huh? The new code hasn't been fully debugged and tested? What does that have to do with anything? If we hear any complaints about that we'll send McAfee, Norton and their crew on a free Mediterranean cruise and layout how they will tell the world all the trouble is due to... ummmm... hmmmmm.... who is most unpopular these days... Al Qaida? that nutbar in North Korea? those holier than thou Canucks? bahh it doesn't make any difference and yes I know it's Canadonians not Canucks, the point is we'll pull a name out of a hat and blame it all on the cyber-terrorists they sponsor. It works every time, even Jobs gets away with it and everybody knows what a poofter he is. Which reminds me... how is our campaign to associate turtlenecks with homosexuality and AIDS progressing? Are our loyal suckers... ooops! I mean loyal users... buying that nonsense yet or do we have to give away a truckload of cheap turtlenecks away at the upcoming Gay Pride parade and snap pictures of them with the turtlenecks on with Gay Pride banners clearly visible in the background and plant the pics right beside ads about AIDS?

Hi Tom,

You made the system even nicer.
However if you buy an SSD from 100 or 120 GB (which is enough for Win7 and a lot of programs) and use the hard disk for data, you safe about €80 and could by the faster AMD CPU or a 660Ti?
With the CPU cooler you get thermal past so you didn't need to order that extra.
I have several anti static wrist bands but don't use them. What I do however is to lay the MOBO on the anti static bag it is shipped in. And if you read the manual of the CPU cooler than you see which nuts you need to place in which hole for the AMD build and then you can place that more easily at the back of the MOBO than was shown in the film. You don't need to touch the MOBO so much in that case.
And for cleaning the heat pipes that tough the CPU and the CPU as well you can use iso-alcohol, also known as rubbing alcohol or isopropyl alcohol, you can buy a bit at a local chemist or pharmacy, way cheaper then the special stuff hardware stores are selling.
____________
Greetings from TJ

My friend installed an SSD in his computer. Now that the initial Wow! factor has worn off he says he wishes he had bought a UPS instead. The main benefit he sees is that the machine boots extremely fast but if the machine is a dedicated cruncher it doesn't shutdown and reboot often. He claims the SSD makes little difference to his normal computer activities like web surfing, listening to music, word processing, and CAD (he's a draftsman). Sure, those files load and save a little faster but there's not much practical difference between 1 second and 5 seconds. If you save 4 seconds 50 times a day that's 200 seconds or less than 4 minutes which is nothing I would worry about.

A UPS can save you hours of messing around with restores and redoing work that got destroyed by a power failure before it got saved or backed up.

____________
BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

My friend installed an SSD in his computer. Now that the initial Wow! factor has worn off he says he wishes he had bought a UPS instead. The main benefit he sees is that the machine boots extremely fast but if the machine is a dedicated cruncher it doesn't shutdown and reboot often. He claims the SSD makes little difference to his normal computer activities like web surfing, listening to music, word processing, and CAD (he's a draftsman). Sure, those files load and save a little faster but there's not much practical difference between 1 second and 5 seconds. If you save 4 seconds 50 times a day that's 200 seconds or less than 4 minutes which is nothing I would worry about.

A UPS can save you hours of messing around with restores and redoing work that got destroyed by a power failure before it got saved or backed up.

The 660Ti is somewhat bandwidth constrained compared to the GTX660; both have the same bandwidth, but the 660 has less CUDA cores to feed.

I like to read all these Linux things as I still have issues with my Linux or even better Linux and I.
But it would be better to make a new thread for that as this is more about building a new PC.
____________
Greetings from TJ

Again, thanks everyone for your input.

I listened. The SSD is gone and the FX8350 is in. Also in are a hard disk (500GB is more than enough) and a DVD/CD RW (Blueray is of no interest to me).

The items in blue are on order.



That leaves the question of GTX 660 vs. 660TI. Price difference is €116. But what's the performance difference in the real, GPUGrid, world?

I keep a log of WUs. This past month I've done 27 NATHAN_KIDKIXc22 WUs. The CPU run times are remarkably consistent, averaging 43298 seconds; 12.027 hours. That's on my 2.67GHz i7 and mildly-OCed ASUS GTX 660 (GPU: 1097MHz, Shader: 2194MHz, Memory: 3004 MHz).

If those of you that run the 660TI could post how long your rig takes to process one of those Nathans, that would be most helpful (me thinks...). Thanks!

Tom

I like to read all these Linux things as I still have issues with my Linux or even better Linux and I.
But it would be better to make a new thread for that as this is more about building a new PC.

You are correct and I have tried to restrain myself from going too far off-topic. My apologies if I have done so but I got the feeling tomba wanted to hear a little about Linux. Again, sorry if I've gone too far.

Hi Tom,

The AMD CPU will come with a stock cooler. It is very easy to install and cools great. My system does 4 Rosetta's and 2 GPUGRID on two 660's and runs at 48-54°C with the stock cooler. It can make a lot of noise though if the room temperature becomes high. During summer in France even higher then in the Netherlands. but you can try first. The thermal past is already mounted on that cooler.

I would install an SSD though of 100 or 120 MB. Insight (a Europe) company has now 40% discounts on a Kingston SSD. If you can find that company in France too you could if have for around 50 Euro's.
It will be such a joy to install drivers, boot, upgrade BOINC boot, de-install driver, boot and use another set of drivers. And don't forget that you have to boot Windows many times due to security updates and such, or as a WU has don clocked the GPU clock. A thing that often occurs on my 660. The investment is worth while just as Zoltan explained.

Good luck with you choices.
____________
Greetings from TJ

Hi TJ,

The AMD CPU will come with a stock cooler. It is very easy to install and cools great. My system does 4 Rosetta's and 2 GPUGRID on two 660's and runs at 48-54°C with the stock cooler. It can make a lot of noise though if the room temperature becomes high. During summer in France even higher then in the Netherlands. but you can try first. The thermal past is already mounted on that cooler.

I would install an SSD though of 100 or 120 MB. Insight (a Europe) company has now 40% discounts on a Kingston SSD. If you can find that company in France too you could if have for around 50 Euro's.
It will be such a joy to install drivers, boot, upgrade BOINC boot, de-install driver, boot and use another set of drivers. And don't forget that you have to boot Windows many times due to security updates and such, or as a WU has don clocked the GPU clock. A thing that often occurs on my 660. The investment is worth while just as Zoltan explained.

I got the feeling tomba wanted to hear a little about Linux.

I downloaded the 12.04.3 ISO and inserted a new 700MB RW CD for the burn. "Not enough space on the CD"; the ISO is 724,992KB.

Tomba,

When you create a new machine in Virtualbox, it will step you through the parameters to create a new virtual machine. When it gets to the step where it asks for the install *.iso file, you should be able to point it to the file location on your hard drive.

Hope that helps.

When you create a new machine in Virtualbox, it will step you through the parameters to create a new virtual machine. When it gets to the step where it asks for the install *.iso file, you should be able to point it to the file location on your hard drive.

I didn't pay much attencion to this, but I would advice you to see issues with GPUs on VirtualBox. Not very sure you will go smooth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69bRWxg2_QE

Hi TJ,

The AMD CPU will come with a stock cooler. It is very easy to install and cools great. My system does 4 Rosetta's and 2 GPUGRID on two 660's and runs at 48-54°C with the stock cooler. It can make a lot of noise though if the room temperature becomes high. During summer in France even higher then in the Netherlands. but you can try first. The thermal past is already mounted on that cooler.

I think I'm committed to the already-purchased cooler but, if there's a decent cooler in the mobo box, I might try installing it in my i7 Dell, which makes too much CPU fan noise for me to run any Rosettas.

Tom

Tomba,

I just downloaded a fresh copy of Ubuntu 13.10, created a new VM, and told it to install from my hard drive. It seems to be working just fine (no error message like yours). The only thing I know to tell you is to check and make sure that virtualization is enabled in your BIOS. Many computers come with virtualization disabled and you have to enable it in the BIOS.

BTW, when you choose to burn the Ubuntu *.ISO file to an optical disk, you can burn it to a DVD and it will fit just fine.

Let us know how it turns out.

The only thing I know to tell you is to check and make sure that virtualization is enabled in your BIOS.

I downloaded the 12.04.3 ISO and inserted a new 700MB RW CD for the burn. "Not enough space on the CD"; the ISO is 724,992KB.

I had that problem too, downloaded a older version and updated.
Another option is to put it into a USB stick.
There's plety of forums talking about this (I find it very silly, that they did this). Search "ubuntu size 700MB" and you find more info.

1. The plain vanilla Ubuntu installer ISO fits on a CD. It boots, asks you some questions about configuration options and installs Ubuntu. That's all it does. To run Ubuntu you must complete the installation then reboot. This is the way a Windows install disk works, this ISO fits on a CD. If you are already sure you want to install to HDD then just download the plain vanilla installer.
   
   
2. The Ubuntu Live ISO does not fit on a CD because it has extra code the plain vanilla installer does not have. That extras code gives a Live DVD the ability to boot directly into a fully operational Ubuntu (something the plain vanilla ISO does not do). That allows you to test drive Ubuntu before installing it on your HDD. If you decide to install Ubuntu to your HDD after the test drive you don't need to download the plain vanilla ISO because the Live DVD can also install Ubuntu.
   

The next big surprise tomba is going to run into is that there is no C: to be found anywhere, no D: either. Don't worry tomba, Linux has not destroyed you disks, they still work.

Once you get a virtual Ubuntu created, the software updater will run and tell you there are a hundred or more updates. The first update is equivalent to a service pack in Windows but we don't call them service packs. The second update may be fairly big too but the third will be small. Do the updates before you start exploring and playing. After the updates are done you should shutdown the VM, open VBox manager and clone the first VM. Give the cloned VM a name that has the word "virgin" in it. Don't ever use the virgin. That way if you destroy the other VM by doing something dumb you just tell VBox manager to delete the destroyed one then clone a new one from the virgin. That gives you a fresh and already updated Ubuntu to start over with. Actually, I like to do the updates then install BOINC and then clone the virgin.

____________
BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Tomba,

Are we still talking about your Dell 435 XPS? It's possible that your motherboard/BOIS/CPU/chipset combination does not support virtualization. I did some searches on the Internet and found a post that said Dell sometimes blocks virtualization in the BIOS on their desktop computers. I also found a thread that said some CPU's lack the hardware virtualization capabilities that are required to run a virtual machine.

You can do a search on the Internet with your exact configuration and see if it is supposed to support virtualization.

Hope that helps.

Regarding necessity for hardware virtualization, see Hardware vs. software virtualization from the official VirtualBox documentation. To summarize, you don't need hardware virtualization if the guest OS is 32 bit. If the guest OS is 64 bit then your CPU must support hardware virtualization.

It's true, Dell has in the past disabled hardware virtualization on some models and made it impossible to turn on. If you look at BOINC's Event Log, about 20 lines from the top BOINC lists the hardware extensions your CPU supports. For Intel CPUs it will show VT-x. For AMD CPUs it will show AMD-V. The catch is that the list of extensions can be very long and may not fit on the screen you are using. In that case BOINC does not line-wrap the list it just chops it short. The bottom line is that if you see VT-x or AMD-V in the list then you can be sure your CPU has that feature. It might be disabled in BIOS but at least it is there and you might be able to turn it on in BIOS. If you do not see VT-x or AMD-V in BOINC's list then it might be that BOINC has simply chopped off the portion of the list where the feature appears. In that case you need to find stdoutdae.txt in the BOINC data directory, open it with a text editor and search for VT-x (if you have an Intel CPU) or AMD-V (if you have an AMD CPU). If you find it then your CPU supports it but, again, it might not be enabled. If you don't find it then your CPU doesn't support it. In that case you cannot install a 64 bit guest OS, only a 32 bit guest OS. The guest OS is the OS you install in the VM.

I could be wrong but I think tomba's problem was that he tried to save the VM image to the Ubuntu install DVD instead of HDD.


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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Thanks for chipping in MrS, and a special thanks for bringing this thread back on topic!

I suppose you haven't ordered yet, Tomba?

GPU: back when the GTX660Ti wasn't much more expensive than a GTX660 it was the obvious choise for crunchers. But now the markup on the last cards is far too large. You should go straight for a GTX770 (280€) if you want more than a GTX660, anything in between is too expensive for the performance.

What's the clock speed and timing of your kit?

DVD: you don't need this if it's going to be a dedicated cruncher (install from USB and later on use another drive over the network).

SSD: I recommend the Samsung 840 Evo 120 GB at 85€.

Number of GPUs: I won't put more than 1 high performance card into my main rig, since I couldn't cool that heat silently enough with air. Two cards is still a manageable setup: you can have enough space between the cards and the PCIe connections are not really bottlenecking yet (I'm not only considering the current GPU-Grid app - it's better to err on the safe side here). At 3 cards things become challenging: you need a significnatly stronger PSU and you're almost forced into blower-style coolers, which are powerful but inherently loud. Also the PCIe configurations and on AMD the link between Northbridge and CPU become important to consider.

100€/year higher running costs for the AMD system (unless your electricity is significantly cheaper)!

Re my plan to use the third of the three WIN 7 licences I bought ages ago, I just noticed it's the "Update" version.

Does this mean I must first install XP or Vista on the SSD, and then install WIN 7?

Will the WIN7 install complain that the opsys it finds on the SSD is unverified, or should I buy a full XP or Vista CD?

(No - I don't want to start with a Linux install...)

Tom

Re my plan to use the third of the three WIN 7 licences I bought ages ago, I just noticed it's the "Update" version.

Re my plan to use the third of the three WIN 7 licences I bought ages ago, I just noticed it's the "Update" version.

Call off the dogs! Just ordered WIN7 Professional SP1 with COA on eBay UK for £37. Excellent feedback.

Tom

Well, everything is shipped, and some bits have been delivered. I'm getting excited... :)

In my current rig I switched the old GTX 660 for the new GTX 660 OC, to make sure it was not DOA. It's totally silent, and it's faster: GPU from 1097 to 1149, Shader from 2194 to 2299. Memory is the same at 3004.

I await calls from more delivery men.

Tom

I don't have a cc_config.xml file, which I shall need for multiple GPUs.

I search these fora for cc_config.xml but no post told me its destination folder.

Where does it go?

Tom

The cc.config goes into the BOINC Data folder.
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Greetings from TJ

The case arrived this morning so I made a start.

I don'r have the earthing strap yet so I passed on the mobo. However, I installed the SSD and a disk drive. Easy. Disk drives go in screwless. Two bays have cradles for SSDs so my on-order cradle is redundant.

The DVD was a bit of a challenge. There are five bays and the five front grills pop off easily. But behind them are five metal plates with no visible means of removing them. A quick Google advised breaking them off, which I did. Then the DVD drive went in easily, and screwless.

I am not a little worried about the myriad of cables coming the front control panel. All gauges, all connectors, all colours. The case's Micky Mouse guide shows a few of the key ones but that's it. No definitions of which colours are what :(

Tom

The cc.config goes into the BOINC Data folder.

The connectors on the ends of the cables usually have names such as USB, HDD led, PWR, RESET, etc. stenciled on them. Your mobo's manual will tell you wherte each connector goes. The connectors usually are keyed which means they can fit only one way. Where there is any doubt about polarity, the mobo manualwill probably show + and - on a diagram. Red is +, black is -, white can also be + and green is sometimes -.
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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

The connectors on the ends of the cables usually have names such as USB, HDD led, PWR, RESET, etc. stenciled on them. Your mobo's manual will tell you wherte each connector goes. The connectors usually are keyed which means they can fit only one way. Where there is any doubt about polarity, the mobo manualwill probably show + and - on a diagram. Red is +, black is -, white can also be + and green is sometimes -.

You're welcome.

I bet the stock CPU cooler will be adequate when the rig crunches GPUgrid tasks because GPUgrid tasks don't work the CPU extremely hard, they work the GPU hard instead and for that reason I would watch the GPU temperature very carefully.

The stock/default GPU cooling mode for my 660ti is Automatic and it sucks because it allows the temperature to hover between 80C and 84C which is far too high. I have to put the fan control in manual mode and set it to a high RPM manually in order to keep the temp no higher than 65C. Actually I have a script that takes care of that for me but the point is that you might want to have your GPU temperature monitoring software installed and running before you start the first GPU task and be prepared to either suspend the task if the temperature soars too high or setup manual fan control or whatever method your software allows.
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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

I would watch the GPU temperature very carefully.

you might want to have your GPU temperature monitoring software installed and running before you start the first GPU task and be prepared to either suspend the task if the temperature soars too high or setup manual fan control or whatever method your software allows.

I decided to leave the christening till the morning, after a thorough check that everything's in the right place. Fingers crossed...

I would watch the GPU temperature very carefully.

It looks very good for New. Congratulations! Your first build appears to be a success :-)

Now, in your opinion:

1) was it a difficult process?
2) did you save enough money to justify the effort?
3) would you build your own again in the future and would you recommend it to others?
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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

And congratulations from me, too: I may even try such a project in 2014....

The new beast is now running GPUGrid with both GTX 660s so I retired the old PC with a GTX 460. I have planned to include the 460 in the new rig but I had forgotten it too is double width. There's no room in this case for three double width GPUs.

1) was it a difficult process?
2) did you save enough money to justify the effort?
3) would you build your own again in the future and would you recommend it to others?

Congratulations Tom!

You have now the same rig as I have with two 660's on a Sabertooth MOBO and an FX8350. I also use the stock CPU cooler still. However it will become noisy if ambient temperature rises and 6 cores are doing Rosetta.

It is indeed nice to build you own rigs, you can put in whatever you like.
What you can do as watch as many offers at PC shops and buy stuff, then you can build a second one over time. I used 5 months to collect all I needed for a new rig. Like an action for a WD Black HD 1TB for €40. That's more than half off the normal price.

One thing though, and a lot of people will not agree, but Dell builds very good silent cooling systems.
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Greetings from TJ

Had a fright last night. Got home to find the new PC off!

Found that the default power setting in Windows 7 is to sleep after 30 minutes.

BOINC Notices tells me:



My cc_config.xml file contains:

<cc_config>
<use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus>
</cc_config>

I'm happily using two GPUs. Perhaps this parameter is now redundant?

Tom

Always check with the documentation - in this case, client configuration.

I think your tag would be valid if you put it inside an <options> block.

By default, BOINC will use the 'better' of two dis-similar GPUs. Since your two GPUs are the same, there is no 'better' or 'worse'. BOINC will use both of them without complaint.

I think your tag would be valid if you put it inside an <options> block.

@skgiven,

I fixed the info regarding Linux 64bit, Windows and CC1.3 at http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/GPU_computing#Attach_to_projects_with_GPU_applications. If you wish to see other changes PM me.

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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Well, my new rig is busy making a bigger contribution to GPUGrid. I even have the old rig upstairs running with a GTX 460…

I have a problem. The new rig is fan-noisy with just two CPU cores active, running the acemd.814 code. An ear inside the case tells me it’s the stock CPU cooler. I guess that chickening-out on the EVO cooler was not a good idea!

ASUS doc tells me the CPU warranty is void with a non-stock cooler. What to do? …

Tom

By default, BOINC will use the 'better' of two dis-similar GPUs.

The Boinc manual merely says,

<use_all_gpus>0|1</use_all_gpus>
If 1, use all GPUs (otherwise only the most capable ones are used).

That isn't enough information and is vague.
While not applicable to this situation, it would be useful to clarify what you mean by dis-similar GPU's (Fermi vs Kepler, or AMD vs NVidia vs Intel), as that's not mentioned in the manual.

Try ducting cool air from outside the case directly to the CPU fan. Here are a bunch of pictures of ducts in use. Notice the pics of a pop bottle with both ends cut off. Now that's my kind of modding... cheap and recycling stuff. I'll give you a link to a tool you can use to cut holes easily in cases, the tool is called a nibbler.

Checkout The Effectiveness of Air Ducts in CPU Cooling.

Google for pc cooling duct for more links. I don't know how expensive those ducts are these days but I used one years ago and it gave amazing results.

Or just put the other cooling solution on and don't tell Asus. They'll never know.Keep the original and if you ever need warranty put the original back on and send it in. However, if you keep theb CPU cool and power it through a good spike protector the chances of it failing are very slim.

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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Nibblers:

I've had one of these for years. I like it because with it you can cut a hole in the middle of a piece of material without starting the cut on the edge then cutting over to your hole although you have to drill a small hole inside the perimeter of your hole to start the cut.

Amazon also sells the AK327 and this one probably others too. A rotary saw in a Dremel works well too but it's more expensive.

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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Well, my new rig is busy making a bigger contribution to GPUGrid. I even have the old rig upstairs running with a GTX 460…

I have a problem. The new rig is fan-noisy with just two CPU cores active, running the acemd.814 code. An ear inside the case tells me it’s the stock CPU cooler. I guess that chickening-out on the EVO cooler was not a good idea!

ASUS doc tells me the CPU warranty is void with a non-stock cooler. What to do? …

Tom

I shall be back here soon with a plea for help on the BIOS of this beast I've bought...

In the meantime, if you've been following this thread, you will know I suggested to my son that his Santa contribution could be a GTX 770. Didn't work! I got an Amazon gift certificate for €50... She who holds the purse strings saw how disappointed I was and has agreed to fund the balance! Bingo!!!

My first thought is to put the 770 in my old i7 PC. It has a 620 watt PSU - is that enough? But I don't know how long I can keep up the pretense that it must be on for file transfer purposes...

Has anyone had experience of squeezing three wide PSUs into a Sabertooth 990FX R2.20 mobo (four PCIe slots) inside a Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced case?

Has anyone had experience of squeezing three wide PSUs

620W is absolutely enough for one GTX770.
It should be possible to put 3 GPU's on the Sabertooth, but with very little space in between and the fan of one GPU will such in warm air from the other card.
I have space for it and my case is somewhat shorter then yours. However it could become very warm then and the CPU cooler will make even more noise.
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Greetings from TJ

Tomba, if you need help optimizing your BIOS settings on the Sabertooth MB, just let me know, I'm running 4 990FX chipset motherboards (2 Asus M5A990FX Pro R2.0 and 2 Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z). I'm going to be upgrading the other 2 to Formula-Z MB's soon because they let me run 32GB of 1866 RAM with lower settings and they are much more stable because the memory slots have their own 4 pin power connection straight from the PSU. The PCIe slots also have their own 4 pin Molex connection too, my TDP hardly moves on my GPU's. If your interested, just let me know, I have a tremendous amount of experience with that chipset.

TJ is right... with 3 cards in the case you're going to have cooling problem and/or a noise problem. That's why Retvari recommended cards with radial fans if you intended to put 3 on 1 mobo. Cards with radial fans blow the heat out the back of the case. IIRC, your cards have axial fans which blow the hot air at the card beside it or the CPU and leave the hot air inside the case.

Fortunately there are various solutions:

1. wear ear plugs
   
2. banish the rig to a different room and access it remotely
   
3. increase the airflow into the case and between the cards
   
4. decrease the temperature of the air going into the case
   
5. a combination of 3 and 4
   

Try removing the case side cover and laying the case down on the closed side. Less hot air will collect in the case that way. Or remove the side cover, leave the case standing up and position a large, mains powered fan so it blows air into the case.

After experimenting with PC cooling for many years, I guarantee to you that the most effective way to increase cooling is to reduce the temperature of the air going into the case. Nothing else even comes close.

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BOINC <<--- credit whores, pedants, alien hunters

Tomba, if you need help optimizing your BIOS settings on the Sabertooth MB, just let me know