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Message boards : Number crunching : Simulation has become unstable

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Killersocke
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Message 35111 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 11:51:23 UTC
Last modified: 18 Feb 2014 | 11:54:57 UTC

369x-SANTI_MAR422cap310-8-32-RND5608_0
80 (0x50) Unknown error number

http://www.gpugrid.net/result.php?resultid=7785880

Killersocke
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Message 35112 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 11:56:10 UTC

369x-SANTI_MAR422cap310-8-32-RND5608_1
-97 (0xffffffffffffff9f) Unknown error number

http://www.gpugrid.net/result.php?resultid=7788789

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Message 35122 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 17:26:10 UTC - in response to Message 35112.

Your GPU is too hot. Use MSI Afterburner (or similar) to control the fans and keep the GPU cool (ideally below 70C). When the GPU is >80C failures are common. Your temps would not keep rising if you had a fan profile or specific fan setting in place.
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Message 35125 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 18:27:32 UTC - in response to Message 35122.

thx for your Information.
Installed now the Afterburner.
Hope it will help :-)

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Message 35126 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 19:27:06 UTC - in response to Message 35125.

You should be able to see the GPU temperature drop as you increase the fan speed.
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Message 35130 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 21:35:08 UTC - in response to Message 35126.

I had no problems in the past, neither
with long term, Seti or Einstein
The fans are dust free.
Driver version 334.89

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Message 35134 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014 | 22:27:54 UTC - in response to Message 35130.

I think I'm developing a twitch.
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Message 35138 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014 | 0:01:28 UTC - in response to Message 35130.

I had no problems in the past, neither
with long term, Seti or Einstein
The fans are dust free.
Driver version 334.89


That doesn't mean you won't have trouble here, if that's what you're saying.

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Message 35143 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014 | 9:38:49 UTC - in response to Message 35138.

The Specifications
for the GTX 760:
Thermal and Power Specs(in C):
97 C Maximum GPU Temperature
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-760/specifications

The normal Temperature under heavy load 80 / 81 C


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Message 35152 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014 | 16:45:30 UTC - in response to Message 35143.

So what's yer point? You think the tech specs prove that the years of experience skgiven has is wrong? Is that it? Do the tech specs tell you how to crunch GPUgrid?

Your GPU is running too hot and don't bother saying you don't have the problem at other projects because those projects don't work the GPU as hard as this project does.


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Message 35155 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014 | 18:03:37 UTC

As English is not my native language, feel free to interpret whatever you want in my words.
Anyway, have a nice day.

Killersocke --

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Message 35167 - Posted: 20 Feb 2014 | 0:43:42 UTC - in response to Message 35155.

As English is not my native language, feel free to interpret whatever you want in my words.
Anyway, have a nice day.

Killersocke --

Did you set a fan curve or static rate? Did this improve things?
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Message 35192 - Posted: 21 Feb 2014 | 0:16:15 UTC

I have had 3 tasks with this result - "The simulation has become unstable".

http://www.gpugrid.net/result.php?resultid=7790657
http://www.gpugrid.net/result.php?resultid=7788022
http://www.gpugrid.net/result.php?resultid=7776520

I have no problems with my GPU running other BOINC projects, normal usage, or stress tests.

The error message implies, to me at least, that the program has found a problem with the simulation and has decided to terminate it. I have no problems with that as it is just as valid a result as completing the simulation.

What I do object to is not getting credit for the several hours of work done for each task when there is no apparent fault with my PC.

So I've stopped GPUGRID for the moment at least.

Bob

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Message 35193 - Posted: 21 Feb 2014 | 0:48:20 UTC - in response to Message 35192.

BobMALCS,

I have come to the conclusion the GPUGrid is that absolute toughest thing I can through at my GPU cards. I would guess that a decision has been made to make the software a little less tolerant that we are normally use to. In a game, a bad colored pixel, a dropped frame, seeing through the wrong layer for example are annoying, but do not crash. As we have seen from Win7, it has another layer added to the video drivers which makes it crash a whole lot less. The bad part is that Win7 just crunches slower than XP and Linux. Of course XP and Linux are stable too. At least with XP, when I pushed the edge too hard on the GPU cards, I would crash the whole thing.

With that, I increase my voltages to run as fast as I can, but still keep the card at <=72C with the noise I can tolerate from the fans. Those squirrel cage fans are a little unbearable for me when they are at 85%, so I slow the overclock a bit to what I can bear (especially in summer). When I finally find the sweet balance, for not getting failed work units from GPU Grid...I also get no other GPU failures for any other software/games I use/play.

Maybe not the best way for things, but it is a bit of a fun challenge. :)

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Message 35196 - Posted: 21 Feb 2014 | 2:44:57 UTC - in response to Message 35192.

What I do object to is not getting credit for the several hours of work done for each task when there is no apparent fault with my PC.


At some projects errored tasks are valuable because it tells the researchers what does not work. It's not that way at this project. Here errored tasks provide no such info therefore they have no value at all.

Probably the only thing wrong with your PC is that it's not configured the way it needs to be configured to run GPUgrid tasks error free. If you configure it properly it will run GPUgrid tasks error free (unless there are defective or failing components in the computer). GPU tasks from other projects don't work the GPU as hard as tasks from this project do. To run tasks from this project you need to tune your configuration carefully and make sure your machine is cooling adequately.

I know it's hard to imagine that a GPU that runs other projects OK might not be configured properly for this project but it's true. In the last 30 days I've seen several crunchers with the same complaint as you who have accepted the fact they need to tune carefully and now they're running error free. Those who can't accept it are either crunching elsewhere or returning more errors than they need to.

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Message 35203 - Posted: 21 Feb 2014 | 13:16:30 UTC - in response to Message 35196.

Thanks for the comments. However my GT760 is overclocked and runs very nicely within its limits. So rather than spending hours trying to tweak it to run GPUGrid and potentially upset a very stable setup I'll just leave GPUGrid well alone.

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Message 35243 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 2:38:45 UTC

How to read here I'm not alone with this problem:

http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3621#35242

So I've stopped GPUGRID for the moment at least.

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Message 35245 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 3:38:26 UTC - in response to Message 35243.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2014 | 3:58:44 UTC

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Message 35260 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 11:16:08 UTC - in response to Message 35203.

Thanks for the comments. However my GT760 is overclocked and runs very nicely within its limits. So rather than spending hours trying to tweak it to run GPUGrid and potentially upset a very stable setup I'll just leave GPUGrid well alone.

Clearly your GT760 does not run very nicely! It takes minutes to adjust GPU frequencies and temperatures.
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Message 35271 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 13:52:58 UTC - in response to Message 35260.

skgiven.

First my setup.
Intel Core i5 Quad 2500K (Sandy Bridge) OC to 4.33GHz.
GTX760 OC to 1097Mhz and 1.2V

I use a small program TThtottle to prevent BOINC tasks driving the CPU temp above 75C and the GPU temp above 70C. Quite often the CPU reaches 75C but it is rare for the GPU to reach 70C.

Of all the programs and BOINC projects I run only GPUGRID fails in any way so as far as I am concerned my system runs nicely.

From what I have read it seems that the only option I have to get GPUGRID to run is to downclock the GPU. If I did that then it will impact the other BOINC projects adversely. So I will not downclock the GPU.

It is, as you say, simple to change the various GPU parameters. However, it takes experience to do it properly. I suspect most people running GPUGRID are not experts nor wish to become one. Also, what you left unspoken, is that it takes many hours of checking, over several GPUGRID tasks, to ensure that the changes have the desired effect and also that other projects and programs still run as well as before.

One final point. It is quite possible to write programs, either deliberately or by accident, that drive a component beyond its safe limits or seriously affect other programs. It looks to me that GPUGRID, in a perfectly reasonable desire for efficiency, is reaching or has reached that point. It is now up to the programmer to seriously consider what and how they are coding.

In summary, getting GPUGRID tasks to run without error is not quite as simple as you make out.

I have no doubt others will, perhaps vehemently, disagree with me. But this is my opinion just as you have yours.

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Message 35278 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 15:15:57 UTC - in response to Message 35271.

TThrottle is a great problem, however when using it with GPU-crunching it will results in errors. The program does not "slow down" the CPU and GPU usage at a certain rate, but let it run 100% and then only a few % and so on and then CPU and GPU stay cool(er). For at least with GPUGRID tasks this stopping and starting of the WU will let if fail after a while. That is the reason I don't use TThrottle anymore.
With MSI Afterburner you can set the speed of the fan for the GPU nicely and works on any card, any brand, nVidia as well AMD.

If your cards run nice and smooth at GPUGRID then they do on other projects as well you don't have to worry about that.

At last I will not defend anyone, but you can trust skgiven's advice. He it not always lengthy in his explanation and you have to search and try a bit for yourself. But he knows where he is talking about and I have used a lot from his knowledge myself.
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Message 35279 - Posted: 23 Feb 2014 | 15:19:02 UTC - in response to Message 35271.

skgiven.

First my setup.
Intel Core i5 Quad 2500K (Sandy Bridge) OC to 4.33GHz.
GTX760 OC to 1097Mhz and 1.2V

I use a small program TThtottle to prevent BOINC tasks driving the CPU temp above 75C and the GPU temp above 70C. Quite often the CPU reaches 75C but it is rare for the GPU to reach 70C.


WTF!!!! You've OCd your CPU to 4.33GHz and now you're throttling it back with TThrottle?????!!!!! That just doesn't make any sense. It's like building a super fast engine then slipping the clutch so the vehicle doesn't go too fast.

Of all the programs and BOINC projects I run only GPUGRID fails in any way so as far as I am concerned my system runs nicely.


Those other GPU projects are wussy projects. Any old FUBAR'd system, even yours, can crunch them. GPUgrid is the cream of the crop, the top dog amongst all GPU using BOINC projects. The admins and the dev here are what other GPU using projects only wish they could be. The only reason your system can't run GPUgrid is because you've FUBAR'd your system.

From what I have read it seems that the only option I have to get GPUGRID to run is to downclock the GPU. If I did that then it will impact the other BOINC projects adversely. So I will not downclock the GPU.


You have plenty of other options but it seems you've made up your mind that your system is the model of perfection and should run GPUgrid exactly the way it is.

It is, as you say, simple to change the various GPU parameters. However, it takes experience to do it properly.


Well then get the experience. Plenty of other people have done exactly that.

I suspect most people running GPUGRID are not experts nor wish to become one.


You don't need to become an expert but if that's the word you prefer to use then fine continue to delude yourself. But that isn't going to get you crunching GPUgrid.

Also, what you left unspoken, is that it takes many hours of checking, over several GPUGRID tasks, to ensure that the changes have the desired effect and also that other projects and programs still run as well as before.


That's debatable but let's say it's true. If you don't want to do the work then you don't get to run with the big dogs; you just sit on the porch with the pups and watch.

One final point. It is quite possible to write programs, either deliberately or by accident, that drive a component beyond its safe limits or seriously affect other programs. It looks to me that GPUGRID, in a perfectly reasonable desire for efficiency, is reaching or has reached that point. It is now up to the programmer to seriously consider what and how they are coding.


You obviously don't know spit about coding and the proof is that you're OCing your CPU then throttling it back. Your "advice" to the programmer here is a sad joke at best and the meanderings of a noob at worst.


In summary, getting GPUGRID tasks to run without error is not quite as simple as you make out.


Yes it is and if you would spend more time reading about it and thinking about it and stop wasting time arguing about it you would be half way there by now. I've seen several other non-experts do it, why can't you?

I have no doubt others will, perhaps vehemently, disagree with me. But this is my opinion just as you have yours.


You and skgiven both have opinions, that much is true. To say your opinion on this topic is as informed and valid as skgivens' opinion is, well, the thought just makes me ROFLMAO.

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Message 35367 - Posted: 26 Feb 2014 | 20:47:00 UTC - in response to Message 35279.

<sigh>

1 - You know nothing about my skills, ability, or achievements any more than I know about yours.

2 - I will NOT turn this thread into a flame-fest. You can, of course, do whatever makes you feel good.

3 - I will let the readers make up their own minds.

I'm out of here.

Bye.

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Message 35371 - Posted: 26 Feb 2014 | 21:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 35367.

<sigh>

1 - You know nothing about my skills, ability, or achievements any more than I know about yours.


Wrong. From you have told us about yourself and what you're doing it's easy to see you're advising on topics you know little about. Your monkey see monkey do (it works at project A therefore is has to work at project B too) solution is no solution at all. Call that a flame if you want, I call it the truth and I believe the more experienced crunchers here will agree with that opinion.

2 - I will NOT turn this thread into a flame-fest. You can, of course, do whatever makes you feel good.


If you think I am posting in this thread to make me feel good you're wrong again. I post to try to help you and others feel good by telling you what isn't likely to happen so that you can pursue a more realistic strategy for achieving success crunching here.

3 - I will let the readers make up their own minds.


How magnanamous of you.

I'm out of here.

Bye.


<yawn>

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Message 35387 - Posted: 27 Feb 2014 | 21:00:21 UTC - in response to Message 35271.

In summary, getting GPUGRID tasks to run without error is not quite as simple as you make out.

I have no doubt others will, perhaps vehemently, disagree with me. But this is my opinion just as you have yours.

I think you are right it is not simple. Even after reducing the temperature you may have problems; you will very likely have to reduce the clock. But since your card is over-clocked anyway, you are really just reducing the clock to the value that Nvidia specified, which they did for a reason. If you (or the factory) overclock the card, you take your chances. GPUGrid is not a gaming community, and maybe they should make more allowances for that when they design their programs. But I am not a gamer anyway, and only use these cards for GPUGrid, so how they perform on other projects is of no concern to me. Each person has his own tolerance for tweaking up the cards, so you must act accordingly.

But it is quite possible to get them stable; here are my results for a recently completed run on two GTX 660s on a PC running Windows 7 64-bit:
http://www.gpugrid.net/results.php?hostid=165674&offset=0&show_names=1&state=0&appid=

I have since moved the cards to a WinXP machine, where they run faster. But as a consequence, they are now a little unstable and I am having to play the tweaking game again. They will be stable again shortly, but whether you consider that fun or not is up to you.

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Message 35390 - Posted: 28 Feb 2014 | 9:16:16 UTC - in response to Message 35387.

Impressive Jim, those two so 660 stable.
I can get them stable for only a few days and then an error. I tweak the cards, one by one almost every week. Clocks are way down, that the cards run slower then they should. Mine are EVGA's and the fan can run to a maximum of 75%, that is the reason the master GPU is always almost at 75°C.
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Message 35391 - Posted: 28 Feb 2014 | 10:28:45 UTC - in response to Message 35390.

TJ,

Have you tried to reduce the RAM clock of your card as well?

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Message 35394 - Posted: 28 Feb 2014 | 11:58:49 UTC - in response to Message 35391.

Also, I have had to increase the power limit (to 110%) of the cards using Nvidia Inspector. In fact, my most recent problem required that I increase the limit more than that. That required downloading the original BIOS using GPU-Z, modifying it using Kepler Bios Tweaker (I set the power limit to 137.5 watts), and then flashing the BIOS of my Zotac GTX 660 using nvflash. It is not for the faint of heart, and I don't think everyone should attempt it. But that is an extreme case because that card didn't have the greatest heatsink to begin with, and most cards don't require going into the BIOS. You can just use Nvidia Inspector (or MSI Afterburner or whatever else you want) for most cases.

Other cards require down-clocking the GPU, and maybe the memory too as RZ points out. So that is why it can get complicated; each card is an individual investigation if you want to get down to zero errors, and I don't think that is really necessary but mention it only to show that it is possible. A lot of the errors blamed on the work units are really due to instabilities of the card because it is being pushed too hard.

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Message 35417 - Posted: 1 Mar 2014 | 11:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 35391.

TJ,

Have you tried to reduce the RAM clock of your card as well?

No I didn't yet. Good advice Zoltan, I will fiddle with that a bit too.
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Message 35418 - Posted: 1 Mar 2014 | 11:31:00 UTC - in response to Message 35394.

Thanks Jim, I know the procedure of updating the GPU BIOS have all the tools but still not done it yet. If I get a second 780Ti I will put the 660 in an older system and then experiment with the BIOS too.
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