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Message 39432 - Posted: 9 Jan 2015 | 22:31:32 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jan 2015 | 22:32:55 UTC

I just calculated and realize that it costs me about $20.00 a day to support my crunching habit.

Anywhere between 500.00 and 800.00...a month.
Not per quarter...per month, kiddos.

Just pure electricity bills. And this is in the USA, where I am sure mine are not the highest in the world.

Just a side note for anybody wondering what it truly costs.
And I am running legacy hardware.......a lot of 580s, which do a wonderful job of crunching, but also chew through amps like ants through sugar.

A few years ago, I ran a 50amp 240v subfeed box and line to my living room to feed the crunchers. I was in danger of frying the existing house wiring just to feed my crunching habit. Luckily, I am an electrician, and both reckognized the problem and was able to deal with it in accordance.
Now my rigs have many amps of juice to run..........but I still have to pay for the mains supply......

Meowsigh.

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Message 39433 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 0:27:44 UTC

It's really kind of you to make such a big investment.

You might get a lot more mileage and a lower cost by stopping work for a few months and upgrading your cards to some Maxwells with the money you're saving.

May I ask, how many graphics cards do you have in operation?

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Message 39434 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 1:38:30 UTC - in response to Message 39432.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2015 | 1:42:27 UTC

I just calculated and realize that it costs me about $20.00 a day to support my crunching habit.

Anywhere between 500.00 and 800.00...a month.
Not per quarter...per month, kiddos.

Just pure electricity bills. And this is in the USA, where I am sure mine are not the highest in the world.

Just a side note for anybody wondering what it truly costs.
And I am running legacy hardware.......a lot of 580s, which do a wonderful job of crunching, but also chew through amps like ants through sugar.

That's why I went to Maxwells (all 750Ti). Total power bill (Minnesota) is running an average of $325/month for an all electric house. Of course half the year (or more) they're heating the house (almost totally). I'd consider selling some of those energy eaters and invest in some Maxwells.

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Message 39437 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 9:01:42 UTC - in response to Message 39432.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2015 | 10:43:54 UTC

I just calculated and realize that it costs me about $20.00 a day to support my crunching habit.

Anywhere between 500.00 and 800.00...a month.
Not per quarter...per month, kiddos.

Just pure electricity bills. And this is in the USA, where I am sure mine are not the highest in the world.

Just a side note for anybody wondering what it truly costs.
And I am running legacy hardware.......a lot of 580s, which do a wonderful job of crunching, but also chew through amps like ants through sugar.

A few years ago, I ran a 50amp 240v subfeed box and line to my living room to feed the crunchers. I was in danger of frying the existing house wiring just to feed my crunching habit. Luckily, I am an electrician, and both reckognized the problem and was able to deal with it in accordance.
Now my rigs have many amps of juice to run..........but I still have to pay for the mains supply......

Meowsigh.

How much does Electricity cost you per KWh?

If you updated your GPU's to Maxwell's; GTX750Ti 2GB or any of the 900 series you could do as much GPU work and save a lot on power.
Take a GTX580 for example. At GPUGrid it will use around 185W whereas a GTX970 will use 145W and a GTX750Ti will use 60W.
The GTX750Ti gets ~86% the credits of a GTX580 but uses 1/3rd the power. It's performance per Watt is ~2.5 times that of a GTX580.
The GTX970 gets 70% more credits than a GTX580 but uses ~40W less. It's ~2.28 times as power efficient.

The 900series efficiency over the 600 series is a bit less, but still significant.
If you replaced your GTX680's with GTX970's you could do both more work and save on electricity costs.
A GTX970's performance per Watt 68% more efficient than a GTX680; the 970 can do 25% more work for 33% less GPU power usage, approx.

So I suggest you start by upgrading your GTX500series cards and then the 600series.
Assuming you have 11 GTX680’s, 6 GTX580’s and 5 GTX560’s (not 448cores), you could replace those 22 GPU’s with 14 GTX 970’s and do the same amount of work. The power usage would be 2.03KW rather than 3.8KW. That would also allow you to do away with 2 systems, if you went for a 2GPU/system setup or 5 systems if you went for a 3GPU/system setup.
Alternatively 12 GTX980's would do around the same amount of work and allow you to drop down to 4 systems. They cost a bit more but running costs would drop to 1.98KW for the GPU's and you would have one less system.

That's not your only problem though, your other hardware is older. Take your i7 CPU 965 for example. While its only 6years old and is still a reasonably potent CPU it has a TDP of 130W. Its basically a heat monster.
For comparison, the i7-4xxx Haswell's have TDP's of between 35 and 88W.

That hopefully highlights a large part of your power usage problem, but beneath your CPUs are older motherboards and PSUs (presumably) which may also be somewhat power hungry.

For GPUGrid GPU crunching, a potent CPU is not necessary. It only becomes so when you start adding 3 or 4 extreme end cards and then its only worth spending a little extra on a CPU.

You could sell your old high end CPU's and buy more basic CPU's with the purpose of GPU crunching, the sale might even fully pay for the purchase. Now though, I would just stop CPU crunching on those systems, or under-volt and under-clock them.
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Message 39438 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 12:13:17 UTC - in response to Message 39433.

It's really kind of you to make such a big investment.

You might get a lot more mileage and a lower cost by stopping work for a few months and upgrading your cards to some Maxwells with the money you're saving.

May I ask, how many graphics cards do you have in operation?

About 24, assuming none have crashed lately...
9 rigs, all have 2 cards, 2 have 3 cards, and one supports 4.
Meow.

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Message 39439 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 12:23:40 UTC - in response to Message 39437.


How much does Electricity cost you per KWh?

Electric Service for 06/18/14 to 07/20/14 (32 Days) 65 Heating Degree Days 123 Cooling Degree Days
Electricity Used
Meter Number VZ347939
Actual Reading on 07/20/14 3753
Actual Reading on 06/18/14 1778
On Peak Electricity Used 1975 kWh
Actual Reading on 07/20/14 62419
Actual Reading on 06/18/14 56093
Total Electricity Used 6326 kWh
Next Scheduled Meter Reading Date 08/19/14
Current Electricity Charges
WI Res Time of Use 10-10 (RG2-A Level 2) 32 Days
Facilities (32 days x $.300000/days) $9.60
State Low-Income Assistance Fee $3.15
Energy - Off Peak (4,351 kWh x $.053030/kWh) $230.73
Energy - On Peak (1,975 kWh x $.275850/kWh) $544.80
Fuel Cost Adjustment - On Peak (1,975 kWh x $.001780-/kWh) $3.52CR
Fuel Cost Adjustment - Off Peak (4,351 kWh x $.001320-/kWh) $5.74CR
Renewable Grant CR (6,326 kWh x $.000810-/kWh) $5.12CR
Subtotal Electricity Charges $773.90
Sales Tax ($770.75 x 5.00%) $38.54
Total Electricity Charges $812.44

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Message 39440 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 12:29:03 UTC

Now, if you look at that bill, it would be very easy for me to cut it in half. I am on 'time of use' rating...
This bill shows 230 bucks at the cheap rate and 544 bucks for crunching during the day when they whack me for the full monty.
But, what's the fun in crunching half arsed? LOL.

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Message 39441 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 13:00:59 UTC - in response to Message 39437.

.

Meowsigh.


If you updated your GPU's to Maxwell's; GTX750Ti 2GB or any of the 900 series you could do as much GPU work and save a lot on power.
[/quote]
OK...you are a smart business man.....
You front me the money to upgrade and I'll pay you back with the energy savings.
Only 137.00 each today.
x24 = $3,288.00
But Tiger has a 15 card limit. So the kitties will have to set up their own account and buy the rest on their tab out of their kibble fund.
Now, suppose that cut my bill in half. Say $400.00 a month saved.
It would be a 9 month payback.
Cut me a check and I'll order them pronto...LOL.
Of course, 24 750tis ain't gonna crunch as much as what I am fronting right now, so the RAC will take a hit.

And, oopsie...only 2 rebates per kitty. So 2 x $137.00 and 22 x $157.00.....
So that brings the tab up to $3,728.00. Payback is now 10 months.
And since it is now 5 degrees below zero f here presently, and 750tis don't generate as much heat, I'll have to fill the 250 gallon fuel oil tank in the basement so I can run the furnace. 250 x 3.28/gallon = #822.50
Tab is now $4,550.50 and payback is now a year.
Except that neither electricity or fuel oil are going to be this low a year from now......and we are basing the payback on an PRESUMED savings of $400.00 a month....
Oh, wait a minute....
We are not including ANY costs for upgrading the supporting CPU infrastructure here. You wanna do the math on upgrading 9 mobos and CPUs??
LOL....I can wipe out my 401k fund and retire on the energy savings, right?

So.....Here is the math...

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Message 39442 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 13:26:06 UTC - in response to Message 39440.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2015 | 13:35:13 UTC

You can configure Boinc to not run during time frames. I do this as my 3h/day (M-F) peak is £0.28/KWh ($0.42)! Normal rate isn't great £0.15 ($0.23) and low is about £0.11 ($0.17).

Boinc Manager (advanced view),
Tools, Computing Preferences, under the Processor usage tab set the time exclusions,
Every day between the hours of 19:00 and 16:00 will mean Boinc runs between 7pm and 4pm but pause from 4pm to 7pm.
- Obviously adjust to your peak hours.

Credit per € / $

PS. Your present kit is still worth plenty, sell it to fund more efficient system, but obviously not all at once. Your i7's would give you plenty of funds to get started with. A dual core CPU with a reasonable clock is plenty to run two mid-range to high end GPU's.
The time to sell your GTX560's is now as the GTX960 will be out soon and the value of the GTX500's will drop to zip. A GTX580 can still fetch around $100. Maybe half that for a GTX560 if your lucky, but your i7's would probably fetch more...
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Message 39443 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 13:41:04 UTC - in response to Message 39434.

Total power bill (Minnesota) is running an average of $325/month for an all electric house. Of course half the year (or more) they're heating the house (almost totally).

Do you know how many BTU's you're DC systems provide? For example: a cord of white birth is 20million BTU. One split 16-18in x 4in x 6in log is roughly ~13K BTU's. A 40Ib bag of wood pellets provide 345K BTU's.
Price for [1] cord of non-seasoned wood is about 225-330$ during New England Winter. Not as harsh as (Northern) Minnesota but close. (I buy and cut my wood in Spring when a cord is 150-175$ and let it season) During the Winter for [3] wood [1] pellet stove(s): I burn about 5/6 cords and 1/4 Ton of pellets. (British Thermal Unit or BTU - is defined as the amount of thermal energy it takes to raise one pound of water one degree F.)

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Message 39444 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 13:41:32 UTC - in response to Message 39442.

You can configure Boinc to not run during time frames. I do this as my 3h/day (M-F) peak is £0.28/KWh ($0.42)! Normal rate isn't great £0.15 ($0.23) and low is about £0.11 ($0.17).

Boinc Manager (advanced view),
Tools, Computing Preferences, under the Processor usage tab set the time exclusions,
Every day between the hours of 19:00 and 16:00 will mean Boinc runs between 7pm and 4pm but pause from 4pm to 7pm.
- Obviously adjust to your peak hours.

Credit per € / $

Yes, I am aware of the possibilities, my friend.
But, the kitties would not be happy with me if I restricted their crunching hours.
Might start to nibble on my toes at night....LOL.
If cost effectiveness were my goal, I could reduce my costs significantly, for sure. But that is not my end game.
The rigs are presently crunching up a storm on Seti. Their servers are on a roll for a change, and AP work is flowing to the rigs nicely. Nobody else on the PLANET does Seti the way I do, and that is something I am very proud of.

No worries, GPUGRID is locked and loaded on all rigs as the backup project, and I'll be here from time to time. Just me and my kwhs....

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Message 39446 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 15:15:10 UTC - in response to Message 39437.

The power usage would be 2.03KW rather than 3.8KW.

2.03KW= 6926 BTU per Hour
3.8KW= 1.297e+4 BTU per Hr.
120W= 409 BTU per Hr.
-[1] GTX 970 @ 145W= 494 BTU per Hr.
-[1] GTX 780ti @ 250W= 853 BTU per Hr.
-[1] GTX 750ti @ 60W= 204 BTU per Hr.(Beyond's 16 GTX750ti provide 3264 BTU's per Hr.)
-[1] System with Total Power @ 750W= 2259 BTU per Hr.
-[1] System with Total Power @ 1KW= 3412 BTU per Hr.
-[1] 1e+5 BTU oil burner= 1.055e+8 W

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Message 39447 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 15:25:53 UTC

Try this one....
I have a 240v 50amp subfeed box supplying the crunchers.
I have it about 90% utilized.
That would be 45amps @240v.
Meaning I am using about 10.8kw from the mains.
Which converts to...
10.8 Kwh = 36851.129604 Btu
No wonder the crunching den is staying reasonably warm even with outside temps hovering around zero f.

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Message 39448 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 15:28:32 UTC
Last modified: 10 Jan 2015 | 15:30:57 UTC

Okay, here's my prescription:

If you're dead set on running at maximum capacity without taking any breaks, you can probably STILL afford to upgrade everything.

Take out a personal loan from your bank.
If they have any reservations, well, you've already done the math that their loan can be paid back in about year's time.

Order fifteen cards, to be sent to your home.
Use a secondary credit card, or a debit card, and order the rest to be sent to either your place of work or a trusted friend's house. You can offer some tech support for their trouble.

You'll start saving by month #1 or #2, and can switch out the inefficient parts later when they go on sale.

PS. Zone heating is much more efficient than full house heating. That's another upgrade you could make that would pay for itself within a few months. If you're really set on whole house heating, possibly the furnace could do with an upgrade, or at least an inspection for further advice.

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Message 39449 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015 | 15:59:43 UTC - in response to Message 39448.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2015 | 16:13:15 UTC

LOL...
The furnace is the original Bard oil burner in this 50yo house.
Yes, it does need an upgrade. I do check the heat exchanger and exhaust stack every year for leaks. And have a couple of CO monitors online at all times. As the saying goes, they just don't build them like that anymore.

As to loans.... I am tapped out. I am still working off of debts I acquired in my early crunching days when I was a younger pup and spent thousands on computer bits. I had a great job selling industrial electronics, but the owner sold out and I was left on the street looking for several years with all that debt still demanding to be paid. Rough times.

I am finally working those debts down. I get paid pretty well these days building fire trucks for a living, and things are getting fairly under control again.

My monthly expenditures for cruncher juice are my biggest outgo now.
And ATT is just wanking away at me increasing my internet access bills.
The bastards seem to be charging me by the freaking minute.
You might possibly understand how having 9 rigs crunching Seti 24/7 can eat up a lot of bandwidth, kids. It is another factor.
And there is just no way I can go forward until some bills go away.
I AM getting there, my friend. And your advice is not in error.
It is just the fact of the matter that I am moored where I am just now, and it is not going to change anytime soon.

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Message 39452 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 3:45:15 UTC - in response to Message 39449.



And ATT is just wanking away at me increasing my internet access bills.
The bastards seem to be charging me by the freaking minute.

I feel your pain. I dumped American Thieves and Thugs a few years ago because they wouldn't grandfather in my 3GS iPhone after I'd been using it with no data plan for a year. They said a data plan was mandatory on an iPhone on their network. I told them to stick their data plan where the sun don't shine and took my business to T-mobile. They lost a $5k a year customer(phones,internet and U-verse)over a $30 data plan. Morons.

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Message 39453 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 4:04:22 UTC - in response to Message 39443.

Total power bill (Minnesota) is running an average of $325/month for an all electric house. Of course half the year (or more) they're heating the house (almost totally).

Do you know how many BTU's you're DC systems provide? For example: a cord of white birth is 20million BTU. One split 16-18in x 4in x 6in log is roughly ~13K BTU's. A 40Ib bag of wood pellets provide 345K BTU's.
Price for [1] cord of non-seasoned wood is about 225-330$ during New England Winter. Not as harsh as (Northern) Minnesota but close. (I buy and cut my wood in Spring when a cord is 150-175$ and let it season) During the Winter for [3] wood [1] pellet stove(s): I burn about 5/6 cords and 1/4 Ton of pellets. (British Thermal Unit or BTU - is defined as the amount of thermal energy it takes to raise one pound of water one degree F.)

I don't know the BTU output of my systems. I have a rather large but super energy efficient house though. It's built for energy efficiency (in 1977 no less). The side with the major windowed areas point straight south and have sun porches that are opened on sunny days and closed the rest of the time. Much of the rest of the house also has buffer areas. All interior walls and floors are insulated. The exterior walls are 6". All my heat is supplied either by the computers or wood that I cut from the land around the house. I had 9 big oaks go down in a huge windstorm a couple years ago. Don't know how I'm going to use all that wood since it's only during extended cold spells that I use any at all.. I could get by a lot cheaper if I either used all wood or the electric furnace which uses off peak at a much lower rate. I like crunching DC though. It makes me feel like I'm doing something to help science and mankind. My problem is the summer. Unless I shut down the computers, AC is silly. There's usually a couple days a year I do just that though for the sake of poor Cocoa (my dog). Sadly he died on Dec 27th at the age of 16.3. He's missed.

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Message 39454 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 4:06:56 UTC - in response to Message 39452.



And ATT is just wanking away at me increasing my internet access bills.
The bastards seem to be charging me by the freaking minute.

I feel your pain. I dumped American Thieves and Thugs a few years ago because they wouldn't grandfather in my 3GS iPhone after I'd been using it with no data plan for a year. They said a data plan was mandatory on an iPhone on their network. I told them to stick their data plan where the sun don't shine and took my business to T-mobile. They lost a $5k a year customer(phones,internet and U-verse)over a $30 data plan. Morons.

I am kinda stuck with them. I cannot complain about the cell phone contract I have...I was grandfathered in from Cingular when ATT bought them out, and they have tried to get me to switch plans, but I am still on the most basic one they have...and they don't offer it to new customers anymore.
The 'net service they have wanked me on a bit at a time, a buck or two at a time, until it is now pretty expensive. But I have only 2 other options. Time/Warner cable....and I don't have a television. Or satellite, which as I have heard is not real cheap and the service gets pretty sketchy at times. I'll stick with the land line...........
When, and I say WHEN Time/Warner buys out Comcast, things are gonna get even uglier for many people.

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Message 39455 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 4:11:13 UTC - in response to Message 39453.
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015 | 4:17:52 UTC

Rest in peace, beloved Cocoa....
I lost my eldest kitty at the age of 18y, 8mo about a year ago, and I still shed a tear or two for her from time to time.
Her dear sister left me at the young age of 5-1/2yo from genetic kidney failure after a 9 month fight involving subq fluids every single day to shore her up.

I still have her 3 stepsisters...aged 14 years and counting.

God bless our companion animals....

Meow.

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Message 39457 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 5:40:14 UTC

I leave the project for loong time because of the GPU core is loaded is barely 60-65
% With my gtx 980 it averaged 60-73 and 25-40 core memory. It depends on the type of unit. gerard is completely tragic.
This is a lack of! It's a waste of resources if I have several computers from the NVIDIA, and each is only 60-80% power to GPUGrid.

I know that this project will have a problem when counting taks without errors.
problem is more complicated, because why not gpu grid to run on 95% load
unfortunately it is a big waste of resources.
and the new Top-average performers (last week long runs) im dont like too..how some peple get to top 10 i dont understod ..
But if you have 3 gtx980 at 60% load ... is a big waste of resources petebe -)

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Message 39460 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015 | 21:54:35 UTC

@Jozef: take a look over there and run 2 concurrent WUs on your GTX980. You might also want to fix the memory clock, if you haven't already done so. Even more so if you run Einstein or SETI.

@The Kitty cruncher: I can understand that you can't change your setup completely. But... there's something I can not understand in your argumentation. It's clear that you want to crunch as fast as possible. And it's also clear that the running cost of your current setup is hurting you financially, up to a point where you don't have enough money left to change parts (you said so yourself).

If this is true, you're running at impressive speed now, but you can't go any further. If I wanted to crunch as much as possible, this would be unbearable for me, seeing how much better a GTX970 is compared to a GTX560 or GTX580 (I'm talking about GPU-Grid, since I'm unfamiliar with performance at SETI).

If I were you I'd scale back a bit now, where it makes the most sense. Save some money for 1 or 2 months, then start replacing parts for more efficient ones. Sell some of the old ones, earn further savings and get the upgrade train rolling. Shoot for a bit lower power consumption than you have now to leave yourself an option for future upgrades. After a year or so you shoudl end up with lower running costs and higher performance. How could one not want this?

Some steps I'd do or consider:
- stop CPU crunching on the Core 2 Quad, if you haven't already
- maybe even stop CPu crunching on the i7's
-> this will hardly impact your throughput, but saves 75 - 100 W per machine

- undervolt the CPUs, although this requires stability testing, as it eats into overclocking headroom (your CPUs have a lot of headroom, though)

- lower the power target of your 600 series GPUs, so that they run at ~1.10 V instead of the default 1.175 V. This improves power efficiency by ~14% at a small core clock drop. I heard SETI is especially demanding on GPU memory throughput (running multiple WUs concurrently for maximum throughput), so the drop in core clock would not even matter that much. This does not impact stability.

- you could OC your GPUs (if not already done so) to make up for the reduced core clock from the previous step.. but this obviously requires testing.

- you could lower the voltage on your 500 series GPUs manually, which increases power efficiency without reducing the clock speed. But this also eats into the overclocking headroom, just as undervolting the CPUs does.

- change the PSUs to 80+ Platinum (e.g. Antec Earthwatts Platinum 650 W for a dual GPU system), this can pay for itself quickly depending on what you're currently using

- software config: are you running optimized apps and multiple concurrent WUs, if this is beneficial to SETI performance?

... optimizing your farm sounds like a fun actvity ;)

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Message 39518 - Posted: 18 Jan 2015 | 9:04:46 UTC
Last modified: 18 Jan 2015 | 9:17:01 UTC

Hi Meowsigh

Two things. Ther First: You're a lucky man because you pay for a consumption of 6326 kWh only $ 812.44. Here in Germany the identical consumption would cause costs of € 1770 ($ 2046).
The second: If you don't upgrade your hardware, you remain caught in your own trap. Forever. That's the simple truth.
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Message 39524 - Posted: 19 Jan 2015 | 13:28:12 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jan 2015 | 13:33:57 UTC

@msattler: Man, if you are in debt and crunching costs you 20$ per day I would suggest taking a break / selling machines. At least for me it would not be worth ruining my life prospects for crunching.
Just my personal opinion :) Respect for the dedication though.

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Message 39525 - Posted: 19 Jan 2015 | 15:29:54 UTC

For those of you whose crunching rigs serve double duty as space heaters, you might be amused by this company's hardware:


http://www.qarnot-computing.com


(scroll down)

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Message 39526 - Posted: 19 Jan 2015 | 17:07:26 UTC

msattler: feel sorry for you - sounds like you have a bit of an addiction problem, all be it a very honorable one. Seriously take these guys advice - put your old machines / cards on ebay whilst they still have some value to gamers. As an incentive think also of the environmental impact of all that energy being wasted.
- My guess the soon to be released 960 will be the bang per buck per watt card to buy, time will tell.

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Message 39531 - Posted: 19 Jan 2015 | 20:23:28 UTC - in response to Message 39524.

if you are in debt and crunching costs you 20$ per day I would suggest taking a break / selling machines. At least for me it would not be worth ruining my life prospects for crunching.

Believe the man. He's right. The purpose of distributed computing is (imho) not that you burn your entire money. If there is not enough left for the house, the family and your next car, there should be a good reason for that. What would you like to achieve? Do you think that you will be immortalized in the Olympus of the eternal Cruncher? Turn off the tap a little more. Then you're still a highly valued member of GPUGrid. And for that, have a bit more reserves. Think it over.

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Message 39572 - Posted: 22 Jan 2015 | 9:51:00 UTC

I thank you for all of your well-intentioned posts here.
But, don't pity ME, LOL.
I have a good paying job, work some long hours, and things are quite under control. I contribute a bit here at GPUGRID when the crunchers run out of Seti work. My rigs cost a little more than some of yours to keep in electricity, but they crunch hard and I am happy with that.

I am the #1 single home user of Seti on the planet. That is a source of pride and joy to me, even if it won't buy me a cuppa coffee in my retirement age.

For now, it all works. I am advancing on my debts, and when the time comes and the funds allow, I might indulge in some upgrades. Old hardware does present it's problems at times, but I have been adept in dealing with it.

I have built much of my crunching farm with gifts of other cruncher's upgrade pullouts. And that is why I am a generation or two behind some of you.

I don't have the time or inclination to start yanking things apart, investing in new cards, and trying to hawk the old stuff on ebay. It just ain't gonna happen.
I'll pay the slightly increased electricity costs and run what I have until it bites the dust or some kind soul donates some more pulls to me.
For now, my friends, it serves me well.

Meow for now,
Mark

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Message 39574 - Posted: 22 Jan 2015 | 14:42:43 UTC - in response to Message 39572.

I am the #1 single home user of Seti on the planet. That is a source of pride and joy to me, even if it won't buy me a cuppa coffee in my retirement age.

Congrats on the SETI accomplishment, quite impressive. Maybe you'll get an invite when the first aliens land :-)

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Message 39589 - Posted: 22 Jan 2015 | 18:55:31 UTC - in response to Message 39574.

I am the #1 single home user of Seti on the planet. That is a source of pride and joy to me, even if it won't buy me a cuppa coffee in my retirement age.

Congrats on the SETI accomplishment, quite impressive. Maybe you'll get an invite when the first aliens land :-)

Thank you.
It 'tis a feather in me cap.

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Message 39612 - Posted: 23 Jan 2015 | 8:35:18 UTC

LOL...or not......

I just looked up my past year's electric bills and did the math.
Hang on tight, here is what running my farm costs.....

1/22/15 689.41 5531kwh
12/18/14 473.40 3652kwh
11/17/14 527.82 4267kwh
10/17/14 640.84 4631kwh
9/18/14 532.65 3938kwh
8/19/14 742.42 5256kwh
7/21/14 812.44 6326kwh
6/19/14 768.20 5737kwh
5/20/14 756.71 5502kwh
4/21/14 715.03 5602kwh
3/20/14 644.05 4946kwh
2/19/14 608.29 4689kwh

One year running total?
$7,911.26 and 60,077kwh.

I estimate that 95% of that is supporting the crunchers 24/7/365.

Meow!!!

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Message 39614 - Posted: 23 Jan 2015 | 9:10:03 UTC - in response to Message 39612.

Hi msattler,

You might look into replacing the 580s with 750tis, which have about the same performance. A fag packet calculation suggests that as you are paying 0.13USD/kWh for power -- and assuming you can sell on the old cards for about 100USD -- you'll recover the initial expense through reduced running costs in 4-6 months. (Saving around 10USD/GPU/month in reduced electricity costs)

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Message 39669 - Posted: 24 Jan 2015 | 4:19:49 UTC

I am just gonna tough it out.
Not that some of the suggestions made here are not valid.
But the time and trouble to implement them are just too much for me to undertake right now.

Besides, the kitties have the crunchers kicking some real ass on Seti at present.
I love it when what I have works well.

I did survey replacing a lower card with a 680 on my top rig just a bit ago.
The problem is with getting 2 six pin connectors on the current card upgraded to 2 eight pin connectors. The PSU has the moxy...but not enough molex connectors to kludge via adapters. The main connectors are already taken by the 3 680s.

Might look for more adapter kludgy thingys tomorrow.

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Message 39673 - Posted: 24 Jan 2015 | 8:04:58 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2015 | 8:05:55 UTC

No offensive but man, you have a serious problem.
I have been working for 8 years in support group, you would fit there well.
As I see it you even realised that something is wrong but you are ignoring every suggestion...
BTW "I love it when what I have works well." - that's not true. You are overpaying for wasted electricity. New cards would do the same or better job with less powerdrain and would save you a lot of money.

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Message 39675 - Posted: 24 Jan 2015 | 11:11:18 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2015 | 11:20:53 UTC

- Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences.

- The two properties that characterize all addictive stimuli are that they are (positively) reinforcing (i.e., they increase the likelihood that a person will seek repeated exposure to them) and intrinsically rewarding (i.e., they activate the brain's "reward pathways", and are therefore perceived as being something positive or desirable.
- Addictions can include, but are not limited to, exercise addiction, food addiction, drug addiction, computer addiction, sex addiction and gambling addiction.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction

- Denial

1. (Avoidance) Skating Off The Walls: I know I'm using denial when I refuse to directly answer a question and keep trying to change the subject.
2. (Absolute Denial) Saying It Isn't So: I know I'm using denial when I tell people that I don’t have a problem even though I know deep inside that I do.
3. (Minimizing) Saying It Isn’t That Bad: I know I'm using denial when I admit that I have a problem, but try to tell people that it isn't as bad as they think it is.
4. (Rationalizing) Giving Good Reasons: I know I'm using denial when I try to convince people that there are good reasons for me to have the problem and that because there are good reasons I shouldn't be responsible for having to deal with it.

http://www.tgorski.com/clin_mod/dmc/denial_checklist.htm

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Message 39692 - Posted: 25 Jan 2015 | 1:15:07 UTC

Guys lay off msattler. If he wants to continue as is then so be it.
What he has is working well (proven by the 928,000+ RAC here not including his seti RAC) even if it isn't as efficient as it could be. Some people (me included) don't like to upgrade when the current hardware is working just fine and producing good results.

Just because there are more efficient vehicles out there did you all run out and buy Prius (or equivalent) cars? I bet not. Older less fuel efficient vehicles are still used all over the world. Whats the difference?

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Message 39715 - Posted: 25 Jan 2015 | 23:08:21 UTC - in response to Message 39692.

popandbob wrote:
Just because there are more efficient vehicles out there did you all run out and buy Prius (or equivalent) cars? I bet not. Older less fuel efficient vehicles are still used all over the world. Whats the difference?

The difference is simple: anyone who's driving less than 10k km/year can hold on to his old car just fine. The fuel doesn't cost enough to worry him, but replacing the working equipment with something new and shiny would cost a lot.

But for a taxi driver with 100+ km/year the fuel costs amount to a large sum, and a significant portion of the overall cost to run that car. If there's a new vehicle which could cut those costs and quickly pay for the investment through those savings, woudln't this be a smart move? Especially if our "taxi driver" is working on paying pack some debt? It would help him to pay back earlier, or to do whatever else he wants to spend money on. Saying "but the old car still works well" is not helping at all, if things could otherwise be significantly better. We're not living in caves any more, because at some point people said: "it works well, but..."

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Message 39718 - Posted: 26 Jan 2015 | 1:47:19 UTC - in response to Message 39715.

But for a taxi driver with 100+ km/year the fuel costs amount to a large sum, and a significant portion of the overall cost to run that car. If there's a new vehicle which could cut those costs and quickly pay for the investment through those savings, woudln't this be a smart move? Especially if our "taxi driver" is working on paying pack some debt? It would help him to pay back earlier, or to do whatever else he wants to spend money on. Saying "but the old car still works well" is not helping at all, if things could otherwise be significantly better.

MrS


But that taxi driver would have to spend money to upgrade the taxi and when he's in debt he can't afford to do that. Everyone is saying well stop driving, save the fuel your spending and use that to upgrade but by stopping driving he is now not able to get the desired result (taxi fares in this example).

So as it relates to msattler, everyone is saying saying stop the science being done (this being a project that wants results back very quickly...) and then save up and then buy new stuff that will produce the exact same results. Net result to the science? a loss of 6 months of work done.

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Message 39727 - Posted: 26 Jan 2015 | 18:34:02 UTC

People have made suggestions. Msattler doesn't want to do them at the moment. I think we should leave it at that. Personally I feel he deserves a big thanks for supporting science projects. How he decides to do it is his business. If others want to do it differently that's their business. There are many bigger issues in the world to worry about without nitpicking this little one. Let's thank everyone for their contribution to science, and move on.

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Message 39979 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015 | 17:37:50 UTC

We should definitely finish this topic. Just one more point:

Mark, I hope it's clear why we posted all those suggestions. It's not to "pick on you" (not that you would have expressed anything like this). I can only speak for myself, but I suppose most will agree.. the point is that your contribution is very welcome, yet we're worried it might not be sustainable.

Popandbob just brought up the point of "if he scales back, there will be science lost or done later". But what you go full throttle now, and maybe for one or two more years, and then it somehow all collapses? If we could help to avoid that by bringing your running costs down while keeping your performance similar, we might loose a bit of speed during the next few months, but could keep you crunching for years afterwards.

How realistic and/or likely is such a scenario? We can't tell, honestly, but from what you wrote many of us would be scared if it were us ;)

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